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 Post subject: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:20 pm 
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NYT: Jose Contreras, who had been dominant in the series, came on in relief of Andy Pettitte, the Yankee's starting pitcher, in the sixth and struck out the side. <p>*He struck out three batters but also walked one. Is it accurate to say he struck out the side? What if he gave up a hit or three hits or 10 runs but got all three outs on whiffs? Did he strike out the side?*


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:27 pm 
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It used to mean 1-2-3-out. I am told by someone who pays even closer attention to baseball than I do that relatively recently--five years ago, perhaps--the terms began being used to mean only that the pitcher had three strikeouts in the inning.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:11 pm 
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A similar situation exists in hockey, I believe:<p>The scoring of three goals by a player in one game is a "hat trick." This used to be limited to when the goals were scored consecutively -- a feat now known as a "natural hat trick."


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:44 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ADKbrown:
NYT: Jose Contreras, who had been dominant in the series, came on in relief of Andy Pettitte, the Yankee's starting pitcher, in the sixth and struck out the side. <p>*He struck out three batters but also walked one. Is it accurate to say he struck out the side? What if he gave up a hit or three hits or 10 runs but got all three outs on whiffs? Did he strike out the side?*<hr></blockquote><p>I doubt there is a consensus. Mr. Blanchard's associate is correct; only recently has it been used to refer to three strikeouts in an inning, not consecutively. The "side" simply means the team at bat. The "side is retired" when three outs are recorded, whether anyone reached base or not.<p>And "hat trick" is used in many different sports, but most often associated with hockey. It originated in cricket when someone got a new hat (or something along those lines) for throwing three consecutive strikes.<p>Curiously, three consecutive strikes in bowling isn't a hat trick. It's a "turkey." Dancing is optional.<p>P.S. The "Yankee's?"


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:28 pm 
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PPS: You need to put that question mark outside your quote marks.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:49 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jjmoney62:
PPS: You need to put that question mark outside your quote marks.<hr></blockquote><p>Granted, but I was just curious if that was the original poster's typo or one by the Times. I'm not inclined to pick apart someone's typing or grammar skills in a message board (although it looks that way, I promise I wasn't!), but if it was printed that way in the NY Times...


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:58 am 
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i was having a little fun being nitpicky, sorry.<p>i retract the post.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:26 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tim Hathcock:
<p>Granted, but I was just curious if that was the original poster's typo or one by the Times. I'm not inclined to pick apart someone's typing or grammar skills in a message board (although it looks that way, I promise I wasn't!), but if it was printed that way in the NY Times...<hr></blockquote><p>I pasted it from the Web site, didn't notice the typo.<p>I would ask all testy copy editors to strike out "struck out the side" if it does not refer to a 1-2-3 inning.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:05 pm 
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And while we're at it...<p>This hed is on the NYTimes Web site. <p>Last Pitch Lands the Yankees in the World Series<p>Can someone please tell me when a last pitch would NOT end a game, for heaven's sake?<p>[ October 17, 2003: Message edited by: SusanV ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:18 pm 
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A play at any plate could be the end of a game, even though it followed a final pitch. But then the home run is the actual end of the game, and not the pitch that preceded it. So, the only way I can envision a pitch ending a game would be for a bases-loaded walk or hit batter forcing in the winning run.<p>Shall we discuss the finer points of the infield-fly rule next?


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:53 pm 
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Christ, Phil....you sound like you're covering the Troy Haymakers. I think using the phrase for nonconsecutive whiffs has been OK for years


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:51 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
Christ, Phil....you sound like you're covering the Troy Haymakers. I think using the phrase for nonconsecutive whiffs has been OK for years<hr></blockquote><p>It's become common (in more ways than one).<p>But striking out the side isn't as impressive if walks and hits intrude. <p>And so another term has been cheapened.<p>(All right, who's going to start an Old Fogeys site for copy editors?)


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:57 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Wayne Countryman:
<p>(All right, who's going to start an Old Fogeys site for copy editors?)<hr></blockquote><p>***If you want to start a Hack Division, you have my blessing. Just leave me out of it.***


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:15 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
Christ, Phil....you sound like you're covering the Troy Haymakers. I think using the phrase for nonconsecutive whiffs has been OK for years<hr></blockquote><p>Don't get me started on all this newfangled equipment like gloves and helmets. ... But here's my argument for sticking with the old meaning of the "struck out the side":<p>The old meaning was unambiguous. The new meaning is not. Does it mean only that the pitcher struck out three batters? Then, in theory, he could pitch lousy and still strike out the side. Yet, the phrase has always been used to refer to a praiseworthy effort. Does it mean he struck out three batters without allowing a run? Then the guy could load the bases and still strike out the side. That's a little more acceptable, but I still think the phrase is not apt. Bottom line: A perfectly good baseball expression has been ruined. Further evidence that the world is going to pot.<p>[ October 18, 2003: Message edited by: ADKbrown ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball lingo
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:49 pm 
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With that sort of clenching, you'll pinch off a diamond.


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