Testy Copy Editors

Our new website is up and running at testycopyeditors.org. This board will be maintained as an archive. Please visit the new site and register. Direct questions to the proprietor, blanp@testycopyeditors.org
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:38 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 47 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
For those who haven't been following the latest fashion trends in newspaper design, apparently doglegs are cool again. For now. <p>It's good to keep up with these things.<p>Once upon a time, I laid out a page with a large file photo and an inset locator map. Our visual expert told me that we should never do such a thing, because it always looks stupid. Two years later, she was doing it all the time because other papers had started doing it again.<p>Many of these gurus are the same ones who determined in the early '90s that headshots should be cropped down to nothing but a nose and upper lip.<p>[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: SeaRaven ]</p>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: In the newsroom
What's a dogleg? The only outside meaning of the word I know has to do with golf courses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
It's what happens when "modular" is no longer vogue.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: In the newsroom
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SeaRaven:
It's what happens when "modular" is no longer vogue.<hr></blockquote>
I see. Well, I don't know what that is either. You have to forgive me, though; I've never worked at a newspaper. (Sacrilege!)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 2266
Location: New Jersey
On the rare occasion I was forced to do section design, I doglegged happily over the frowns of my colleagues. I think it's an aesthetic violation, but one that registers with only a small segment of the population.<p>Is it heretical of me to suggest that readers don't care much about design once they turn past the cover of a section?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 21
Location: The so-called Hub of the Universe
My guess is the reason why doglegs are gaining cachet is because retro is so hip these days. Bottom line, though, a fad is just a fad.<p>Personally, I avoid them. Then again, I'm not a big fan of trends.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 458
Location: Heart of Global Warming
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SusanV:
What's a dogleg? The only outside meaning of the word I know has to do with golf courses.<hr></blockquote>It's what happens when there's a picture wider than the text below - think of a three column picture and one or two associated columns of text underneath plus one or two that have nothing to do with the picture.<p>[LIKE THIS]
XX XX
XX XX <p>Harder to read, in my experience, especially on the subway at 6AM, as the eye tends to drift along the border of the picture.<p>D.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
The "dogleg" was confronted, debated and settled decades ago. Its use is unnecessary and aesthetically unpleasing.
Just lay out the paper and don't make such a major production out of it, please.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: In the newsroom
It does sound unnecessarily confusing. Thanks for the explanation!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
These guys are so far behind the fashion curve that they're hip again without even trying:<p>Image<p>[ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: SeaRaven ]</p>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:21 pm 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blanp:
Just lay out the paper and don't make such a major production out of it, please.<hr></blockquote><p>If only we had more "designers" like blanp.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 32
Location: Nutmeg State
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Matthew Grieco:
Is it heretical of me to suggest that readers don't care much about design once they turn past the cover of a section?<hr></blockquote><p>It's cooler to be seen reading a "pretty" newspaper.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
The Denver Post's redesign mock-up with a dogleg banner hed:<p> Image<p>The people in the photo sure do look awful worried about them "record high" gas prices.<p>The paper's top design guru tells Westword:
"If, in ten years, we have to do another redesign like this one, we've failed." <p>(How many other slots out there suspect that the lower-right story arrived from the rim 45 seconds before deadline with the hed "Rape probe ... "?) <p>
---<p>[ April 23, 2004: Message edited by: SeaRaven ]</p>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 399
Location: Saratoga Springs, N.Y.
I see that vertical rules, once a bugaboo, are also back in vogue. Maybe the consultants will discover the fact that (English language) readers go from left to right, top to bottom, and stop trying to induce them to do otherwise.<p>All this belies the humbug that newspaper design is all about scientifically proven verities of readability, when it's really just fashion.<p>To think of the resources papers have devoted to this foolishness over the years ...


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blanp:
The "dogleg" was confronted, debated and settled decades ago. Its use is unnecessary and aesthetically unpleasing.
.
<hr></blockquote><p>Correct. Ditto for vertical rules and refusal to depart from ad grid. Rest of ya, back to art history class.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:
<p>Correct. Ditto for vertical rules and refusal to depart from ad grid. Rest of ya, back to art history class.<hr></blockquote>
Having said that I've just put to bed a nifty page using a dog leg head and a partial hairline vertical rule.
Used to be indecisive, now I'm not sure.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 3557
Location: Cusp of retirement, grave or both
My brain hurts.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
Doglegs are a departure from layout philosphy but sometimes the mix of elements - in this case a caption story with vertical pic and a non-illustrated lead story - is so compelling one needs to use them. In tabloids you wing it sometimes.<p>[ April 25, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SusanV:
What's a dogleg? The only outside meaning of the word I know has to do with golf courses.<hr></blockquote>
Same go. It's an L shape.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 3:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:01 am
Posts: 69
Location: N.Y.
What's so bad about vertical rules? They separate elements and add white space. Though if you're using them all the time just to make bumping heads not bump, that's probably not a good way to go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CopyMonkey:
Though if you're using them all the time just to make bumping heads not bump, that's probably not a good way to go.<hr></blockquote><p>The belief that column rules, or a box, transform bumping heads into non-bumping heads is one of the great fallacies of newspaper layout.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
Must be about the Ottawa Senators:<p>Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1775
Location: Baltimore
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SeaRaven:
[b]Must be about the Ottawa Senators:
[/b]<hr></blockquote><p>Oh, but the heavy horizontal rule changes everything!<p>Can't remember the source, but several years ago someone wrote a scene mocking this sort of thinking: <p>A couple sits at breakfast, the section fronts of that morning's paper taped to the walls. Between bites of breakfast they critique the layouts, speaking in the most pretentious of designer-speak, never mentioning the news.<p>Back in reality (at a bar), not long after I'd been hired as a copy editor, a discussion of my new paper's relentlessly vertical design reached its nadir when a designer asked what I knew about laying out a page. "That's the way I'd have done it 15 years ago, before I knew what I was doing," I said.<p>I was then corrected. The paper's design philosophy was based on the use of rules and doglegs to create "energy" to entice the reader.<p>"I hope our readers are smarter than I am," I said, "because I have trouble getting as far as the jumpline of half of our stories without getting lost."<p>If only Einstein had been a designer.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 744
Location: HuskerLand
You know, speaking of what designers think readers want, I was at a seminar a few years ago and the speaker (from Poynter) was talking about doing long, long stories that had the point, resolution or whatever at the end so that the reader would have to read the whole story to get to the point. (It was particularly emphasized the jumping the story to another page made readers go to a page they might not ordinarily and that was good for readership too.)<p>News flash -- readers give up before editors and designers think they do. My philosophy -- write and design for the reader, not your ego.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 12:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 1324
Location: N 36° 57' 9", W 121° 24' 2"
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Wayne Countryman:
Can't remember the source, but several years ago someone wrote a scene mocking this sort of thinking: <p>A couple sits at breakfast, the section fronts of that morning's paper taped to the walls. Between bites of breakfast they critique the layouts, speaking in the most pretentious of designer-speak, never mentioning the news.<hr></blockquote>Sounds like Harrower's "Newspaper Designer's Handbook." I remember something about a couple saying stuff like "What were they thinking, using that font in a pull quote?"<p>I left that book at work when the bastards canned me. Shoulda stolen it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SeaRaven:
[b]Must be about the Ottawa Senators:<p>[/b]<hr></blockquote><p>Anyone want to defend this redesign. Anyone at all?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Oeditpus Rex:
Sounds like Harrower's "Newspaper Designer's Handbook." I remember something about a couple saying stuff like "What were they thinking, using that font in a pull quote?"<p>I left that book at work when the bastards canned me. Shoulda stolen it.<hr></blockquote><p>Those who haven't read this, even old hands, should. Can't agree with it all, but most bits sensible.<p>
Design does matter, though news sells newspapers.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 2:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
I'm not criticizing the whole redesign. It's just the doglegs that don't work for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 5:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
I am criticising the redesign. It is bad. Would any of you like to defend it?<p>[ May 07, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 138
Location: Washington, D.C.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blanp:
<p>The belief that column rules, or a box, transform bumping heads into non-bumping heads is one of the great fallacies of newspaper layout.<hr></blockquote><p>You think? I see a big difference between<p><tt>
Mideast     Man
Summit      Held in
Scheduled   Robbery
</tt><p>and<p><tt>
Mideast   |  Man
Summit    |  Held in
Scheduled |  Robbery
</tt><p>[ May 07, 2004: Message edited by: Bill Walsh ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
More details on the redesign are here.<p>My favorite part of these redesigns is skipping ahead to see what they named the "new" features sections. It's always a hoot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bill Walsh:
<p>You think? I see a big difference between<p><tt>
Mideast     Man
Summit      Held in
Scheduled   Robbery
</tt><p>and<p><tt>
Mideast   |  Man
Summit    |  Held in
Scheduled |  Robbery
</tt><p>[ May 07, 2004: Message edited by: Bill Walsh ]
<hr></blockquote><p>Either way, they're bumping heds. My point is that there's no reason to lay out a page with bumping heds.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 4:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 399
Location: Saratoga Springs, N.Y.
I tried to stay out of this thread (it's a subject that makes me very testy), but .... Sure, it's not =necessary= to bump heds. It's hardly ever necessary to do anything, if not doing it is a big fat priority. But why, oh why tie the headline writer's hands with an yet another arbitrary and stoopid rule? Shouldn't the first priority be telling the damn story? Not bumping heds should be a second, third, or ninety-ninth priority. <p>BTW, I agree with B.W. that a vertical rule (or box) does so keep the heds from bumping. Do heds bump across the gutter between facing pages as well?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
Not bumping headlines does nothing to tie a headline writer's hands. It's the responsibility of whoever draws the pages. There's never a reason to bump headlines.
And you know it. I think you're being deliberately provocative.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 5:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 309
Location: Upper Midwest
My paper uses an arrow between columns of news text (i.e. a package of briefs will have an arrow between them and, say, a main story. We also make some use of horizontal rules, varying their weight and percent/black using in-house rules.<p>If two unrelated heds are to bump (a tombstone ... is that the "jargon" for this arrangement is?), we try to use a bold hed next to a light hed or variations thereof.<p>Gatekeeper<p>-30-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 12:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:01 am
Posts: 69
Location: N.Y.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>
BTW, I agree with B.W. that a vertical rule (or box) does so keep the heds from bumping. Do heds bump across the gutter between facing pages as well?[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>But headlines on facing pages are separated by a fold and an inch or more of white space -- they're clearly two separate pages.<p>Bumping heads with a line between them are still bumping heads. The line makes it easier to tell which words go with which headline, but it doesn't make them not next to each other.<p>I wouldn't go so far as to say that there's NEVER a place for bumping heads -- every once in a great while, you're bound to come across a rare instance where it actually is the best option. But I'd say it should be a once-a-year kind of occurence, because it's definitely avoidable the vast majority of the time, especially considering that most journalists have been trained to do so at one point or another.<p>And as for the headline writer, it's really not all that difficult usually to swap out longer words for shorter ones or vice-versa.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 138
Location: Washington, D.C.
Of course, the whole point of the taboo against bumping headlines is the possibility of confusion over which words go with which headlines.<p>I thought I was on the extreme side for refusing to grant an exception for heds separated by a decent amount of space and clearly varied type styles, but I guess all this boxes-and-rules-don't-matter sentiment makes me a moderate.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 399
Location: Saratoga Springs, N.Y.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr> Bumping heads with a line between them are still bumping heads. The line makes it easier to tell which words go with which headline, but it doesn't make them not next to each other. <hr></blockquote><p>If the reason not to bump heds is "just because," then it's just another foolish design hobgoblin. If the reason is to prevent the reader from reading them as one hed, then significantly different type faces or sizes, vertical rules or boxes, or white space (short lines on the left hed) should do the trick.<p>Yes, the pencil-and-stick guy is the primary victim of the no-bump rule, but the hed writer usually ends up with a worse hed count as a result. And a worse hed count usually results in a worse hed.<p>Once again, conveying important information to the reader takes a back seat to looking nice. Makes me glad I'm out of the biz.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
On most occasions whn I see heads are bumped there is a better solution that leaves news values intact..<p>[ May 10, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 1112
Location: An undisclosed alpine meadow
Another helpful Page One package:<p>Image<p>(pdf file here)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 3:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 281
Location: Dallas
I love how Barnett's thumb appears as if it's so large it has to cut into Tharp's mug.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 6:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 12:01 am
Posts: 6
Location: Sydney, Australia
As a newcomer, I love it when you talk typo.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 9:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 26
Man, I am glad I'm in TV! Reading this thread brought back horrible memories of what makes good design. Now, I just worry about hairspray and makeup and gleefully make typos in copy!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dasher:
Man, I am glad I'm in TV! Reading this thread brought back horrible memories of what makes good design. Now, I just worry about hairspray and makeup and gleefully make typos in copy!<hr></blockquote><p>... and we're all terribly jealous. You know I am!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 10:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 3557
Location: Cusp of retirement, grave or both
The answer is obvious.<p>Newspaper "redesigns" have nothing to do with readability, or whatever you want to call it. They have everything to do with putting money into the pockets of "redesigners" and "consultants" and other garden-variety assholes.<p>Newspaper design is planned obsolescence. After all, if someone made the "perfect" design, they would never get another paycheck. Ergo, the wheel is reinvented every couple years.<p>I've seen it since time began, or so it seems.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: "layout"
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 11:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:01 am
Posts: 3137
Location: Homebush NSW Australia
I love design but I'm with Bumf. It's time we said the emperor had no clothes.
I had a chance to contemplate this matter when cleaning out back copie of - of all things - Oklahoma Today from the office.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 47 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

What They're Saying




Useful Links