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 Post subject: Definition of "batted around"?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:22 pm 
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I heard announcer Jon Miller say something tonight that certainly may be right, but it struck my ear as wrong. (I've heard it both ways, and I'm not sure which is right.)

In the top of the 3rd, when the Padres scored 4 runs, he said that the Padres were about to bat around, because Blum was coming up, and therefore the team had sent nine batters to the plate. (Williams, the No. 9 hitter, began the inning, and Blum, the No. 8 hitter, was coming up.)

I'd always thought that a team had batted around when the same batter came to the plate a second time. In other words, to bat around you have to send 10 men to the plate, not nine. By that definition, because Blum made an out, and Williams did not come to the plate again, the Padres did not bat around. Only nine batters came up, not 10.

Wikipedia (not authoritative, of course, but perhaps a measure of popular opinion), has it this way:

bat around
A team is said to have "batted around" after each of the nine players in the lineup makes a plate appearance and the hitter who led off the inning returns for a second at-bat in that inning.

That's how I learned it. But I've heard announcers say it Miller's way.

Which is it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:07 pm 
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I vote for your interpretation. That's the way I've always understood it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:42 pm 
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In the Strat-O-Matic baseball league I play in, we've always used the phrase when the ninth man comes to the plate, because the scorekeeper will have made a notation beside everyone in the batting order.
Just to introduce another level of intricacy, what would be the consensus if, while the ninth man was up, a baserunner was picked off or thrown out attempting to steal? The batter doesn't get credit for an at bat, so has the team technically batted around?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:54 pm 
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I always took it to mean that the leadoff batter was getting another at-bat.

Vanderhoof Viking wrote:
Just to introduce another level of intricacy, what would be the consensus if, while the ninth man was up, a baserunner was picked off or thrown out attempting to steal? The batter doesn't get credit for an at bat, so has the team technically batted around?


I'd say that as soon as the ninth (or 10th, depending on your definition) batter was at the plate, making an appearance, then the deed is done, no matter the baserunner's actions.

Let's add a bit intricacy, so I might learn without looking it up: Does it matter if a pitch is thrown before the baserunner makes the third out? That is, does an appearance become official merely by standing in the batter's box, recognized by the umpire as the next batter? Or must a pitch be thrown for the appearance to count?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:20 am 
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I always understood "batting around" to mean only nine batters came up in the inning.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:02 am 
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I always took it to mean that the guy who led off the inning gets up again in the same inning. This is interesting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:19 pm 
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Wayne Countryman wrote:

Let's add a bit intricacy, so I might learn without looking it up: Does it matter if a pitch is thrown before the baserunner makes the third out? That is, does an appearance become official merely by standing in the batter's box, recognized by the umpire as the next batter? Or must a pitch be thrown for the appearance to count?


I doubt there's an official rule book definition of "batting around." It's just sportscaster talk, like "striking out the side."

When a pinch hitter is called on, he's officially in the game when his name is announced. He can't be called back and used again. You could use that as the official start of a plate appearance, with the announcement resting with the umpire.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:03 pm 
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SeaRaven wrote:
I always took it to mean that the guy who led off the inning gets up again in the same inning. This is interesting.


Same here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:40 pm 
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B Cubbison wrote:
When a pinch hitter is called on, he's officially in the game when his name is announced. He can't be called back and used again. You could use that as the official start of a plate appearance, with the announcement resting with the umpire.


Thanks, that makes sense.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:06 am 
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And the answer is . . .

Quote:
Phil,

The term "batting around" refers to all 9 batters, in a batting order, coming to bat in one inning, even if the ninth batter makes the third out.

This can be found in print in the New Dickson Baseball Dictionary.

Best,

Freddy Berowski
Research Associate
National Baseball Hall of Fame & Museum
A. Bartlett Giamatti Research Library
25 Main Street
Cooperstown, NY 13326


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:52 pm 
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Jack Brickhouse is vindicated.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:19 pm 
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I'm surprised by the definition but not shocked that I'm wrong again.

Now, Jack Brickhouse, that's someone who knew baseball.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:06 pm 
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Wayne Countryman wrote:
Let's add a bit intricacy, so I might learn without looking it up: Does it matter if a pitch is thrown before the baserunner makes the third out? That is, does an appearance become official merely by standing in the batter's box, recognized by the umpire as the next batter? Or must a pitch be thrown for the appearance to count?


I'm reminded of a trivia question I saw once which asked what the most pitches was a batter could see in one at-bat without swinging the bat.
The answer is 11. He comes up with a runner on, works a full count without swinging, then the runner gets picked off for the third out.
Next inning, the batter is up again with a clean slate and works another full count before the 11th pitch is thrown that will determine something - either a swing, a strikeout or a walk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 am 
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Well done, ADK! Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:56 pm 
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Wayne Countryman wrote:
Let's add a bit intricacy, so I might learn without looking it up: Does it matter if a pitch is thrown before the baserunner makes the third out? That is, does an appearance become official merely by standing in the batter's box, recognized by the umpire as the next batter? Or must a pitch be thrown for the appearance to count?


And another thing ...

Although a player is officially in the game as soon as he is in the batter's box, he doesn't receive credit for a plate appearance until he does something -- so in the above case, if a player enters the game as a pinch hitter with two outs and a runner is picked off to end the inning, he is officially in the game but would not be credited with a plate appearance. If he stays in the game, he'll get his official plate appearance when he completes his time at-bat leading off the next inning.

I love baseball. I can't imagine a good thread like this regarding soccer rule intricacies ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:07 pm 
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"If he stays in the game, he'll get his official plate appearance when he completes his time at-bat leading off the next inning."

Unless, of course, he walks, sacrifices, is hit by a pitch, hits into a fielder's choice with no out recorded, or otherwise manages to not have an official plate appearance. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:50 pm 
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wordygurdy wrote:
Well done, ADK! Thanks.


Yes, I was a reporter once.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:44 pm 
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Vision7 wrote:
"If he stays in the game, he'll get his official plate appearance when he completes his time at-bat leading off the next inning."

Unless, of course, he walks, sacrifices, is hit by a pitch, hits into a fielder's choice with no out recorded, or otherwise manages to not have an official plate appearance. :)


All of those things result in a plate appearance (just not an at-bat, except for the FC, which is an at-bat).


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