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 Post subject: Theo Epstein leaves Red Sox
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:30 pm 
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Theo Esptein walks away from Red Sox.

Objectively, I can only wonder how the Red Sox let this guy get away.

As a Yankees fan, I can only hope this is a return to the not-too-distant past, when the Red Sox were just functional enough to manage a not-too-close second place.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:01 pm 
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The Red Sox are damn fools for letting Theo go, in my opinion. They were way too organizationally top-heavy, and ego clashes were inevitable. Presumably this means the departure of Bill James as a senior adviser as well, which I think would also be unfortunate for the organization.

Manny is almost certainly gone as well, and one can easily foresee a long, dark period ahead in Boston.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:04 pm 
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Wabberjocky wrote:
a long, dark period ... in Boston.


Perish the thought!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:32 pm 
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Is DePodesta available?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:34 am 
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ESPN's Sean McAdam has a good column on the subject.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:48 am 
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Wabberjocky wrote:
The Red Sox are damn fools for letting Theo go, in my opinion. They were way too organizationally top-heavy, and ego clashes were inevitable. Presumably this means the departure of Bill James as a senior adviser as well, which I think would also be unfortunate for the organization.

Manny is almost certainly gone as well, and one can easily foresee a long, dark period ahead in Boston.


I think Wabber nailed it: Too many bosses, too many egos. Too much publicity for the kid GM.

So, Manny will leave, hoping he can get to the Yankees. Damon will have added incentive to leave. Millar will be gone, one way or another. With Trot Nixon being injury-prone and Gabe Kapler still recovering from a serious injury, the Sox will go from having one of the best-hitting outfields to one with who knows out there.

Underrated Bill Mueller, a good fielder and former batting champ who often batted eighth and never fussed, will probably be gone, too.

Pitching already was a huge problem. This won't help.

So, the Sox will probably go into a nose-dive. If the Yankees can fill a few holes (can Bubba play centerfield every day? Is Cano the real deal?) and their young pitchers stay strong, they could rule unchallenged for at least another season.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:48 pm 
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On a bit of a tangent, this story about the Globe/NYT and Red Sox may be of interest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:40 pm 
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Here's another theory.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:03 pm 
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From what Dan Shaughnessy and Bob Ryan wrote in today's Globe, one concludes it was a power struggle.

I would say it was stupid on Epstein's part to get such a swelled head that he thought he knew more and deserved more power than baseball executives who had been in the game longer than he has been alive, but the truth is Epstein will probably get another job pronto. Even if he didn't have everything to do with the Sox' winning the title, he had a lot to do with it.

Too bad. I kind of liked the idea that the Yankees and the Red Sox were being run (ostensibly) by guys in their 30s who were friendly but competitors nonetheless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:07 pm 
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Then again, Epstein delivered what no other Sox executive could. I'd say he's earned his ego. It has nothing to do with how long you've been in baseball — that's knee-jerk retrograde old-school thinking — and everything to do with how good you are and how much you can deliver.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Wabberjocky wrote:
Then again, Epstein delivered what no other Sox executive could. I'd say he's earned his ego. It has nothing to do with how long you've been in baseball — that's knee-jerk retrograde old-school thinking — and everything to do with how good you are and how much you can deliver.


The man had more than a lot to do with it. He brought Big Papi and Schilling to Boston, among others. He deserves his ego.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:44 pm 
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SeaRaven wrote:
Here's another theory.


Reminds me of the honorary fake front page of the newspaper that was presented to me when I left copy editing, which sports the main hed "BIG APPLE-BOUND" and the subhed "Grieco is George's surprise pick to take charge of the Yankees."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:02 pm 
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As usual, Bill Simmons has a good look at the other side of the story.

He brings up a couple of good points about why people should have seen this coming, mainly that a) minority owner and one-time Epstein mentor Larry Lucchino was getting angry at how much attention young Theo was getting; b) Epstein was legitimately outshining Lucchino, who is notorious as a media hog; c) the owners weren't willing to give up the keys to the franchise to Epstein, who wasn't willing to keep plodding along without them; and d) the local media has been too manipulated by the Sox owners to portray things in an objective light.

Simmons points out that many of the usually vicious Boston media outlets took Lucchino's side, and the Shaughnessy column was basically a slap in the face to the tune of "well, now that you've re-signed, here's a little ditty to make sure you don't get any bright ideas." It was published on the day Epstein was expected to renew his contract for three more years, and probably was the straw that broke the camel's back. Only the Boston Herald and Providence Journal were critical of Lucchino — the rest of the outlets are too influenced by the team, pointing out a much larger problem: If a sports team can effectively control the coverage it gets, have we crossed the line from journalism to public relations? Becuase it seems the Red Sox have done just that in Boston.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:18 pm 
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Why would the Boston sports media have a hard time keeping the same ethical distance from the Red Sox that other outlets manage in regards to other baseball organizations? Does Lucchino requires a blood oath of fealty before approving the issuance of media credentials, or something?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:32 pm 
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Wabberjocky wrote:
Why would the Boston sports media have a hard time keeping the same ethical distance from the Red Sox that other outlets manage in regards to other baseball organizations? Does Lucchino requires a blood oath of fealty before approving the issuance of media credentials, or something?


The Boston Globe, through its ownership by the New York Times Company, owns 17% of the Red Sox. More on that here, though keep in mind that this article appears on the website of a Globe competitor.

I don't agree with the notion that the Globe's coverage in general or Shaughnessy's in particular is favorable toward the Red Sox ownership. In fact, the last time the Red Sox ownership changed hands, Shaughnessy and (I believe, if memory serves correctly) Bob Ryan were ripping Bud Selig for performing a "bag job" (Shaughnessy's term) for delivering the Red Sox to the ownership group of Tom Werner, John Henry and Larry Lucchino. Selig rejected a qualified higher bid from another ownership group.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:22 pm 
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The AP wrote:
BOSTON -- Theo Epstein's new job is the same as his old one: general manager of the Boston Red Sox.

The Red Sox announced Tuesday that Epstein would resume his former duties -- nothing more and nothing less than when he left Oct 31.

"While Theo was contemplating returning to the organization in an advisory role," Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said in a statement, "he and I talked and agreed it was best for the organization if he returned as general manager -- a title more appropriate for him because it accurately reflects the role he will play.


Thus ends one of the silliest offseason sagas in recent memory.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:34 pm 
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Dear Mr. Lucchino:

Please let my son become GM again.

Signed,
Epstein's Mother.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:01 am 
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Pretty much anyone connected with or rooting for the Red Sox is happy about this except Lucchino.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:30 am 
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Connfused wrote:
Dear Mr. Lucchino:

Please let my son become GM again.

Signed,
Epstein's Mother.


That made me laugh out loud.

How long till Welcome Back, Kotter comes out on DVD? It's been too long already!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:27 pm 
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There is probably a bad book in this. "Epstein Czar Syndrome," by Dan Shaughnessy, something like that.


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