Big Papi or Bonds (healthy)?

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:53 am

Whom would you rather face with the game on the line?

Perhaps it's because I don't follow the National League closely enough (though how could one be a baseball fan and not know how Bonds has destroyed all types of pitchers since turning 35?), but as a Yankee fan immersed in the Yank-Red Sox wars, I vote for Bonds.

David Ortiz is lethal. Occasionally you can tie him up inside, but you had better make sure the pitch is up and in, because if it's down and in, you can go searching for it 475 feet away in the bleachers.

It's interesting that last night the A's intentionally walked him in the 10th inning to get to Manny Ramirez, who was then hit by a pitch to win the game.

I've been saying for the past two years that the Yankees should have taken that tack toward Ortiz--walk him every time up, regardless of the situation. Why would you let him beat you? He is the American League's version of Bonds.

(This post inspired by a piece on Ortiz in today's New York Times by Jack Curry.)

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:16 pm

Right now? I'd rather pitch to Bonds. He's still going to hit a few homers, but he's a decaying cheater who's going to self-destruct any month now.

And he doesn't have Manny batting behind him.

I agree with you. Ortiz is the best pure power hitter in the junior circuit, and Oakland was absolutely right to walk him last night (I was watching that game, and told my roommate that Ken Macha would be an idiot to do anything else). Too bad the pitcher couldn't control his pitches to Manny at all.

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:20 pm

By the way, I've sort of lost interest in comparing Bonds (healthy) to anyone. As far as I'm concerned, his career stats don't count, because he didn't get that big without steroids. Doesn't happen. Him and McGwire and Sosa and Palmeiro and Canseco ... I just don't care to consider their numbers anymore. No matter what the stat book says, I'm back to considering Roger Maris the single-season HR champion.

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:15 pm

Yep, Matthew. Wasn't watching, but agreed with the move. Ramirez hits only when he feels like it, and he's the only one who knows when that is.

And I have to admit, Ortiz's homers are things of majestic beauty. They stay hit when he hits them, that's for sure.

You just hope he's not heading for Mo Vaughn territory regarding his weight and subsequently foreshortened career. I brought this comparison up to a friend a week ago, and the friend pointed out that Vaughn played the field for most of his career, contributing to his physical decline, whereas Ortiz has been a DH most of his career, probably preserving his body a bit more.

Docsdoctor · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:38 pm

I was just last night thinking that Ortiz looked fitter than he did last year. He's still a very big guy, but not so pudgy looking. Maybe he has a new tailor.

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:38 am

I tell you, it is fun to be wrapped up in this AL East pennant race and witness the blow-for-blow long distance (literally and figuratively) exchange between Ortiz and Alex Rodriguez. It seems nightly each hits one or more homers and collects three or four RBI.

As of today, Papi leads A-Rod in homers, 46 to 45, and in RBI, 140 to 120.

It's almost a real life version of the Pepsi commercial with A-Rod and Vladimir Guerrero in which each tries to hit homers farther than the other.

PunkOnce · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:45 pm

(Want to get this on record before the last 3 Yanks-BoSox games this weekend.)

I accept all of the A-Rod-for-MVP arguments vs. David Ortiz -- which I will now summarize using simple inequalities:

- A-Rod's 3B > Papi's DH (or: offense + defense > offense)
- A-Rod's 5 tools (power-average-speed-glove-arm) > Papi's 2 tools (power + a little average)
- A-Rod's power numbers in Bronx > Papi's power numbers in Fenway
- Clutch hitting < 0 (i.e., does not exist)

And yet sitting here in Boston -- especially after last night's nail-biter vs. Toronto -- I can't shake the feeling that Big Papi's incredible 2005 season at the plate -- especially in at-bats after the sixth inning -- is one that few of us are likely ever to see again.

Maybe I'm just caught up in the hype, but Papi's effect on the competitive balance of the Red Sox' games seems to me almost unprecedented for a non-steroid-linked player. Guys who hit homers and play outstanding defense already have awards set aside for them; for guys who change games, it's the MVP or nothing, isn't it?

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