Get your ballots in

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:09 am

COOPERSTOWN, N.Y. (Sports Network) - Five-time American League batting champion Wade Boggs, two-time NL batting champ Willie McGee and former Cy Young Award winner Jack McDowell are among 12 first-year candidates on the 2005 Baseball Hall of Fame ballot. Former relief pitcher Jeff Montgomery, starting pitcher Mark Langston, switch- hitting slugger Chili Davis, and former home run champion Darryl Strawberry are also on the ballot for the first time. Other first-timers eligible for 2005 are pitchers Jim Abbott and Tom Candiotti, catcher Terry Steinbach, infielder/outfielder Tony Phillips and outfielder Otis Nixon. There are also 15 holdovers from the 2004 ballot, including second baseman Ryne Sandberg, outfielders Jim Rice and Andre Dawson, and relievers Bruce Sutter and Rich "Goose" Gossage. It's slim pickins this year. The only ones who might make my list: Boggs, Sutter and Gossage.

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:41 pm

I'd have no quibbles with that list, JJ.I would add Ryne Sandberg, though, who hit tremendously well for a second baseman when second basemen weren't hitting tremendously well. His numbers look pale by today's standards, but in his time he was a great offensive player.I don't understand why Gossage hasn't got in. He was dominant for a long time, with the White Sox, Yankees and Padres (he was the closer on the '84 World Series team). Just because he doesn't have the gaudy numbers of an Eckersley or a Rivera doesn't mean he wasn't the cream of the crop in his day. For one thing, Gossage often went longer than two innings in his appearances, thus cutting down on the number of easy "saves" racked up by today's closers.I would bet if you talked to any hitter who played in the '70s against Gossage and asked him whether he wanted any part of going up to home plate while Gossage was on the mound, the answer would be no.[ November 30, 2004: Message edited by: wordygurdy ]

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:00 pm

My ballot:Wade Boggs
Ryne Sandberg
Goose Gossage
Bert Blyleven (on the margins of HoF quality, but 22 effective seasons and fifth place all time in strikeouts does the trick for me. Longevity and innings pitched also count. Ranks 13th all-time in innings pitched. Pitched 241 innings when he was 39 years old and went 17-5 with a 2.73 ERA. Probably the season holding him back is the one before that, when he went 10-17 with a 5.43 ERA, but that was just one of those bizarre anomalies.)I like Sutter, but I don't think his career was long enough for a HoF pitcher, even though his numbers in his 12 seasons were excellent. With a 12-season career, you need Koufaxian stats to make your case.[ November 30, 2004: Message edited by: Matthew Grieco ]

ndugan1 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:13 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jjmoney62:
The only ones who might make my list: Boggs, Sutter and Gossage.<hr></blockquote>I like that list, but I'd add Willie McGee. Full disclosure: I grew up in St. Louis.[ November 30, 2004: Message edited by: Niko Dugan ]

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:32 pm

McGee was a very good player who will never get in, a la Keith Hernandez.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:37 am

I'll say what I've said before:** Ranking 13th all-time in innings pitched (!) does not make you a hall of famer.** Dramatically changing the way the game is played -- and being unhittable for 5 or 6 years -- does.Sutter's in. Blyleven's not. And I admit, Gossage is a bit of a sentimental choice, but he, too, was a monster out of the bullpen. It's good to see others agree.I watched Sandberg play his whole career. He had a couple of great years, but he never strung together a sterling career. And he hurt himself by quitting prematurely (for embarrassing reasons) and then returning when his skills were shot. If he had a sob story like Kirby Puckett (a similar borderline case), he'd be in.

ADKbrown · **Posted:** Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:58 am

What about Montgomery? Didn't he lead the Royals in saves a few seasons?

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:21 am

Lead the Royals in saves a couple of years and before you know it you're blowing past Bert Blyleven on the all-time innings-pitched list.

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:05 pm

And the inductees are Wade Boggs and Ryne Sandberg.

Congrats to Ryno and Cubs fans on a worthy selection.

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:50 pm

Ah, I can just hear the late, great Sherm Feller, Fenway Pahk p.a. announcer extraordinaire, now:

"Now batting..."

Boggs digs in at the plate and takes a couple of practice swings.

"Number 26...wadeboggs..." (He said both names as one word)

Boggs takes two pitches for strikes and fouls off another.

"Thirdbaseboggs" (He also pronounced the position and surname as one word)

My Boston-area friend and I do a spot-on Sherm imitation.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:04 am

Ah. I can hear in my head the voice of someone most of us have never heard as conjured by a bulletin-board post online. Good stuff.

So Ryne Sandberg's in the hall. God bless him. Put Santo in there, too, this year, but put Ozzie Smith or Don Kessinger in between them, because someone's got to get to all those grounders.

And here's a jump on next year's opportunity to water down the hall:

"Among the players eligible for the first time on next year's BWAA ballot are Orel Hershiser, Will Clark and Dwight Gooden."

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:48 pm

jjmoney62 wrote:

"Among the players eligible for the first time on next year's BWAA ballot are Orel Hershiser, Will Clark and Dwight Gooden."

None of whom will get in, but I realize you were being facetious.

I wholeheartedly agree there have been a lot of players who don't belong added primarily by the Veterans Committee (see: Mazeroski, Bill, as the most egregious example). But now that the Hall of Famers themselves have a greater say in the reshaped Veterans Committee, maybe that will cut down on the number of unworthies inducted (it didn't induct anyone the last time it met).

I remember a quote from Reggie Jackson, who I believe is on the reconstituted Veterans Committee, after the panel's last meeting in which he said something to the effect of "I'm a tough grader when it comes to the Hall" by way of explaining why the committee didn't elect anyone. I wonder if he would vote for his old teammate Gossage if Gossage doesn't get in on the writers' vote.

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:13 pm

The Hall of Famers have more than a "say" now. Except for a couple of members of the old Veterans Committee whose terms haven't expired, the new Veterans Committee comprises just all the living Hall of Famers (including, as I understand it, those inducted as writers and broadcasters).

It pains me to agree that Mazeroski was an unwarranted choice. It was so difficult watching his induction speech, at which he cried extensively, and yet knowing that he really DIDN'T deserve to be there. I felt like a heel.

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:13 pm

JJ,

Given that you saw Sandberg play in person, I'm guessing there's no amount of press praise for him that's going to change your mind as to his Hall worthiness.

But I'm just curious if you saw this excerpt from Jayson Stark's (free) column at ESPN.com about the election? Here it is:

Sandberg (76.2 percent)

A mere two years ago, Sandberg wasn't even collecting 50 percent of the vote. But for some reason, nearly 150 new voters have piled on board his bandwagon since then. So he's finally in. But boy, is it absurd that it took this long.

Until last September, when Jeff Kent passed him, Sandberg led all second basemen in history in home runs (277). He owns the highest fielding percentage (.989) of any second baseman since 1900. He's the only second baseman ever to start nine All-Star Games. And from 1982-92, he led all second basemen in average, homers, RBI, runs, extra-base hits, OPS, fielding percentage and 500-assist seasons. So about all he didn't do was bake the pizzas at Geno's.

By any measure, he was the dominant second baseman of his era -- in the batter's box and in the leathercraft division. And that's the veritable definition of a Hall of Famer. Isn't it?

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:18 pm

Sandberg didn't fit the prototype of what people envision to be a second baseman's job, and that seems to be why some opposed his selection. I am glad that this year 76% of the voters recognized that Sandberg was simply one of the best players in history at his position, and therefore belongs in the Hall of Fame.

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