A bub in the woods inquires ....

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:05 am

LOS ANGELES Oct 9 Reuters - Jose
Lima pitched a complete game five-
hitter and Shawn Green belted two
home runs to lift the Los Angeles
Dodgers to a 4-0 win over the St Louis
Cardinals in their National League
Divisional Series clash tonight. *Is the pitching good, bad or nothing to write home about?*

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:16 am

The losing team's pitching was average in this game.
The winning team's pitching was exceptional.
The team that lost is one of the best at scoring.
The team that won is average -- at best -- at scoring.

ndugan1 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:13 pm

The fact that Lima pitched a complete game (all nine innings with no relief) is exceptional in itself. The fact that he did it in a playoff game only adds to that. The fact that he did it in a playoff game where his team faced elimination adds still more. And the fact that he held a team who had beaten his team 8-3 on two previous games (and had 5 homeruns in the first game) to just five hits makes it phenominal.

ndugan1 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:13 pm

And this is coming from a die-hard Cardinals fan.

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:20 pm

Paul, in the early days of baseball, complete games were the norm. As the game has evolved (or become corrupted, depending on your point of view), they have become uncommon. Today, a starting pitcher who delivers six solid innings has done his job in the eyes of most managers.But by any standard, old or new, Lima's performance in that game was outstanding. He not only pitched a complete game but prevented the strongest offense in the National League from scoring any runs at all. If the Dodgers manage to pull this out (which I still doubt), Lima will have been the one who did the most to save their season.For future reference, here's a quick breakdown of the degrees of pitching greatness in a single game:WIN -- The starting pitcher leaves the game with his team ahead, and the team holds that lead through the end.COMPLETE GAME WIN -- As above, but the starting pitcher pitches the entire game.SHUTOUT -- This is what Lima did. He pitched a complete-game win without giving up any runs. He did allow five hits, however, so he didn't have a:NO-HITTER -- The pitcher not only wins a complete game but allows no hits in the process. This usually happens only once or twice among all pitchers in a single baseball season (occasionally, a season goes by without any no-hitters at all).PERFECT GAME -- The best possible game. The pitcher not only manages a no-hitter but allows the opposing team no baserunners at all. Even without hits, most no-hitters still see opposing players reach base through walks, errors or hit batsmen. If the winning pitcher retires all 27 opposing batters without any of them reaching base, he has pitched a perfect game. There have been, if memory serves, only 18 perfect games in major league history (going back to the 1880s) and only one in the playoffs, out of tens of thousands of games played.[ October 10, 2004: Message edited by: Matthew Grieco ]

ndugan1 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:21 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>There have been, if memory serves, only 18 perfect games in major league history (going back to the 1880s) and only one in the playoffs, out of tens of thousands of games played.<hr></blockquote>...the last of which was completed by Randy Johnson on May 18 of this year, against the Atlanta Braves, who are now battling the Houston Astros for a chance to face the Cardinals in the National League Championship Series. Johnson's perfect game is the second time he's pitched a no-hitter in his career, making him my vote for the Cy Young Award.[ October 11, 2004: Message edited by: Niko Dugan ]

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:31 pm

There's an Edit Post button, you know. It works very well.

ndugan1 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:33 pm

I do now, Grieco. Thank you.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:28 pm

I thank you three. You'll be pleased to know we the item despite the hravy pressure on space created by this minor matter.

ndugan1 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:59 pm

Any game where you can score runs by hitting the ball behind you is beyond my realm of possibility -- especially if it takes 5 days to complete.

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:33 pm

You will note that pitching is especially important in a "clash."

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:55 am

For Niko 110 pages of ball by ball commentary are here for raising this new matter is to ask if there are baseball sites that give ball by ball commentary
.The document linked to takes up 110 single-spaced pages and thus as a match report suffers the obvious problem of being too short.[ October 12, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]

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