Egos rule

Lee · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 9:45 am

I work in features at a national daily. Our columnists rule. We are rarely allowed to cut or even rewrite their precious copy. The copy editor's role seems now to be largely that of spell/fact checker. At my previous job, I could cut or rewrite to my heart's content. I remember once being given 30cm of copy and told to cut it down to two sentences "without losing the guts of the story". I did it. At my current paper, we'd use at least 25cm of the story. I see new people coming in who never learn how to really edit a story. It seems to me that the art of copy editing has been lost at my paper. The columnists (and section editors) are so important that they cannot possibly lose a single precious word. Has ego had a similar impact elsewhere?
It even intrudes on page design, which is what they pay me for. If I leave white space, the editors go: "great, there's room for more words" and make sure they find something to jam in there. I look at the SND award winners each year and am amazed at how much space US page designers are allowed to "waste".
P.S. Today I dispatched one of my precious daughters to the USA. She arrives in about two hours to be a summer camp counsellor in northern Indiana. Therefore:
There will be NO terrorist attacks. There will be NO MORE midwest storms. Everything WILL be wonderful. Okay?

majorbabs · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 10:22 am

Lee, I can only say that egos are a universal element. That doesn't make it any easier -- I work around a few major egos myself -- but it might make you feel less alone. Unfortunately copy editing is often like housekeeping. It's an invisible task when it's done well but don't do it and see what happens. I'm sure your daughter will be fine at camp in northern Indiana. But if she ever needs help, let me know and I'll find her a name and number.

EMorse · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 2:40 pm

Egos have definitely played a big role in my experience, but they're dealt with differently at different papers. I've worked at three dailies in the recent past; at one, a mid-size suburban daily, I was empowered to do pretty much as I saw fit with copy, within reason; the reporters occasionally squawked when a 30-inch story out of a school board meeting got chopped down to a third of that, but management was behind the desk. The next place I worked, a bigger suburban daily within the same company, was pretty much the opposite. Woe unto the copy editor who cut so much as an extraneous preposition there; our desk chief even got a tongue-lashing for calling one pet reporter at home too often to try to sort out his garbled copy. At my current job, on a metro daily, it's split; we can't change or cut copy willy-nilly, except where there are clear-cut errors, but we're encouraged to raise questions about wording, structure, etc. Most writers are good about working with us, but there are a few prima donnas who'll dig in their heels over dumb things. Again, the higher-ups are usually inclined to back up the desk here, although it's often a matter of diplomatic negotiation with some of the more self-involved writers and zone editors.

SusanV · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 2:50 pm

Same here. We have some columnists who need kid-glove handling and others who are the easiest people in the world to edit.

Oeditpus Rex · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 5:37 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by SusanV:
Same here. We have some columnists who need kid-glove handling and others who are the easiest people in the world to edit.<hr></blockquote>Those of us who read Snews can probably guess which are which. And I bet we'd be wrong.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 6:43 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lee:
It seems to me that the art of copy editing has been lost at my paper. <hr></blockquote>Deep breath and a couple of swivels on the chair time. As a reader of said paper, I think you are overstating the case. This is one of these instances where the analogy, ''If you love candy don't work in a chocolate factory'' applies.[ May 26, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 6:52 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by EMorse:
It's often a matter of diplomatic negotiation with some of the more self-involved writers and zone editors.<hr></blockquote>Diplomacy, yes. Negotiation, no. Newsrooms set standards and enforce them. There are also competing desires and someone has to make a judgment call. The wheel that makes the most noise should not get the most grease.

SusanV · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 6:59 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:
Diplomacy, yes. Negotiation, no. Newsrooms set standards and enforce them. There are also competing desires and someone has to make a judgment call. The wheel that makes the most noise should not get the most grease.<hr></blockquote>If only it were that simple. But maybe that is a difference between magazines and newspapers.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 7:34 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by EMorse:
The next place I worked, a bigger suburban daily within the same company, was pretty much the opposite. .....our desk chief even got a tongue-lashing for calling one pet reporter at home too often to try to sort out his garbled copy. .<hr></blockquote>
I have called reporters at home fewer than five times.
That's what one has chiefs of staff
for. In my desk chief days if copy was garbled it got spiked, unless it was earth-shatteringly important. Editor gave me the spike as a peace offering and told me to make good use of it. Many an ego there was. They came and went. The masthead endured, thanks to that spike. I venture it gets good use to this day.

KfitzR · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 8:26 am

What does an electronic spike look like? And how does it work?

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 7:04 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by KfitzR:
What does an electronic spike look like? And how does it work?<hr></blockquote>Thinking that on the train the other night as it happens. We have an electronic basket named spike from whence things can be retrieved. Even more fun is the ability to kill stories. They go to a place from which there as no return.There's a further interesting point here though. Copy desks used to be replete with reference books now many of us use the internet instead. This seeems to have taken away the visual reminder to reporters that using reference works is important.

Cootaboot · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 7:06 pm

Which is why copy editors should carry broadswords.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 8:21 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:

Even more fun is the ability to kill stories. They go to a place from which there as no return.
<hr></blockquote>first computer system i worked on had a nice, big, orange "kill" key to do this. it stood out from all the other keys, just begging to be hit, whether a story was needed or not. about this time one of the Albuquerque papers begin to win many awards. we declared that our kill key was sending great stories from our office in Virginia to New Mexico, and that disconnecting the key would lead to our winning awards.working on that system was about as much fun as wearing a broadsword lacking a hilt or scabbard. the only fun occurred when a certain disk drive would fail, triggering the message "Disk0 dead."

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 8:22 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:
 Copy desks used to be replete with reference books now many of us use the internet instead. This seeems to have taken away the visual reminder to reporters that using reference works is important.<hr></blockquote>Call me old-fashioned, but although I use online reference sources a lot, I still prefer a dictionary in book form.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 8:32 pm

I agree, but don't think the good folk that sign my pay cheques are going to spring for one.

Oeditpus Rex · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 10:18 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by blanp:
Call me old-fashioned, but although I use online reference sources a lot, I still prefer a dictionary in book form.<hr></blockquote>You're old-fashioned, Blanp. So am I. Not long ago, I registered for AP's online stylebook. When I forgot the password, I didn't care very much.

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 10:25 pm

I guess Blanp and I are old coots or something. I never use the electronic dictionary. I use the hard-copy AP book, and I'd use a hard-copy local stylebook were it not only available online.One colleague mentioned the "online thesaurus." I hope this doesn't shock too many people, but I have been reporting/editing for 30 years and have never even looked in a goddamned thesaurus.

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 10:26 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:
I agree, but don't think the good folk that sign my pay cheques are going to spring for one.<hr></blockquote>You don't have real dictionaries? The world has gone mad.

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 10:27 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
One colleague mentioned the "online thesaurus." I hope this doesn't shock too many people, but I have been reporting/editing for 30 years and have never even looked in a goddamned thesaurus.<hr></blockquote>I once walked around the copy desk at your newspaper and confiscated all thesauruses.

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 10:28 pm

Well done, #1. Well done.

EMorse · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2004 4:44 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:
Diplomacy, yes. Negotiation, no. Newsrooms set standards and enforce them. There are also competing desires and someone has to make a judgment call. The wheel that makes the most noise should not get the most grease.<hr></blockquote>True, and in an ideal situation, without looming daily deadlines, it's what happens. And in cases of clear violations of style/procedure/what have you, the copy desk wins. The problems arise over things like story structure; what do you do when a reporter insists on using a roundabout, narrative approach to a hard-news story? I had a situation like that recently involving a criminal arraignment in a case with some highly unusual elements. The reporter thought those elements demanded an approach other than hard news, which led him to describe the events as facts, rather than attributing everything to the authorities or to the defendant's statements. I eventually had to get the desk chief involved, but we won on the point of working in attributions, but with deadline approaching and the reporter digging in, reworking the story into a straighter, hard-news approach wasn't going to happen. It's not perfect, but we usually win the battles we need to and give ground in other areas. I do, however, long for the days at my previous place of work, where that story would have been rewritten, plain and simple.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Sun May 30, 2004 6:18 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
You don't have real dictionaries? The world has gone mad.<hr></blockquote>It makes it easier to keep up with the constant revisions and saves a motza. The online version is extremely good.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Sun May 30, 2004 7:59 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by EMorse:
The reporter thought those elements demanded an approach other than hard news, which led him to describe the events as facts, rather than attributing everything to the authorities or to the defendant's statements. I eventually had to get the desk chief involved, .<hr></blockquote>
A good chief of reporting staff always helps. I've been blessed over the years.

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