G'day

Jester · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 8:25 am

It's John here, a sub from Sydney, Australia. I've just joined up for a rant or two. For starters: How many more times do we have to be reminded, in the light of recent events, that "India is the world's biggest democracy?" And how much time does the average sub waste in the course of a shift kerning/blowing out/rewriting perfectly good sentences simply to avoid widows and orphans?
Cheers and that.
John

SusanV · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 10:21 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jester:
It's John here, a sub from Sydney, Australia. I've just joined up for a rant or two. For starters: How many more times do we have to be reminded, in the light of recent events, that "India is the world's biggest democracy?" And how much time does the average sub waste in the course of a shift kerning/blowing out/rewriting perfectly good sentences simply to avoid widows and orphans?
Cheers and that.
John<hr></blockquote>Welcome! Rant away anytime.As to democracy, it'll be ad nauseam, I'm afraid. As to time spent on tweaks to fix widows and orphans, I'd estimate at least a third. But I don't mind doing that at all. I prefer to think of it as a challenge like a jigsaw puzzle.

JPSheehan · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 10:35 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by SusanV:
As to time spent on tweaks to fix widows and orphans, I'd estimate at least a third. But I don't mind doing that at all. I prefer to think of it as a challenge like a jigsaw puzzle.<hr></blockquote>Probably not as much as a third for me, but I agree. It's like playing Tetris. It can be very satisfying. Insidious, though. At home, I'm guilty of tweaking widows and orphans as a kind of procrastinating activity when I'm writing my own stuff.

JPSheehan · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 10:39 am

As for the world's biggest democracy thing, I'm glad you're noticing it in Australia. I thought it was just your basic American egocentrism: "What? There are other democracies?"

tommangan · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 11:28 am

Shouldn't that be "most populous democracy?" India's landmass surely isn't larger than the U.S. or even Australia?

KfitzR · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 2:14 pm

And most assuredly not as large as Canada - which beats both Australia and the U.S. in square footage, and votes on a fairly regular basis.

JPSheehan · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 2:47 pm

Actually, "biggest democracy" doesn't really bother me, since it refers to India's government -- especially since the term democracy (in name, at least) refers to a populace holding political power. But it's true, you never know how people will read it.

JPSheehan · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 2:50 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by KfitzR:
And most assuredly not as large as Canada - which beats both Australia and the U.S. in square footage... <hr></blockquote>Hey, I thought you guys used the metric system.

gullyj · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 4:58 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:
Shouldn't that be "most populous democracy?" India's landmass surely isn't larger than the U.S. or even Australia?<hr></blockquote>By that definition, I'm looking forward to the first American newspaper that reports: "Russia, the world's largest democracy...."

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 6:17 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jester:
It's John here, a sub from Sydney.<hr></blockquote>
Can I call you
Bruce? If you are in CyberPage there are some nifty tricks to avoid the recasts on widows and orphans..

Jester · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 6:50 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Paul Wiggins:

Can I call you
Bruce? If you are in CyberPage there are some nifty tricks to avoid the recasts on widows and orphans..<hr></blockquote>

Jester · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 7:01 pm

Thanks, Paul (or should that be Bruce?). I am on Cyber so any tips on kerning etc would be welcome.You can call me Son of Bruce if you like - yes, that's my dear old dad's name. It's a great skit. I hadn't seen it for years.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 7:18 pm

I'm gunna get into a bit of jargon here but same principles appy for Quark users.First thing to do is to increase the body size by a tenth of a point. Ensure you type in the set size specification after because this may not be formatted when you depart from standard size.For non-Cyber users, this means don't wreck the text appearance to avoid the widowSecond trick, increase your gutter size by a point.Third trick reduce module depth by a millimetre.If all this fails it means that there is not enough copy in the news hole and the system is applying too much paragraph spacing to feather out.You then have three options: run pars together, do a quick redesign this is the recommended option or accept the widow or orphan the sun will still rise next day.All of this is of course reliant on agreement of chief sub to these tricks.[ May 19, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 7:31 pm

And two more tricks:specify a paragraph advance (par leading for non-Cyber users) of one point on the offending leg, then set it back to zero on the next.Sometimes they layout will allow you to instantly fix the problem by changing the umber of legs in the news hole. Changing a text only story over seven tabloid columns to six legs instead of five being a common one.Apologies to folks whose eyes are glazing over at all of this but the amount of time saved here translates into hours.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 7:35 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by KfitzR:
And most assuredly not as large as Canada - which beats both Australia and the U.S. in square footage, and votes on a fairly regular basis.<hr></blockquote>Election day slogan: Vote early! Vote often!

Jester · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 7:36 pm

Thanks. I'll run it past the relevant authority.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed May 19, 2004 9:01 pm

One crucial thing here. Anything to do with paragraph advance won't work if your cyberhost is has the grid rather than ungrid option. This varies from paper to paper and section to section.

Oeditpus Rex · **Posted:** Fri May 21, 2004 1:20 pm

One of my favorite Quark tricks for stuff like this is increasing or reducing the horizontal/vertical scale. I just wish there were speed keys for it. (Or are there?)Oops... almost forgot. :::hands jester a wattle:::[ May 21, 2004: Message edited by: Oeditpus Rex ]

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Fri May 21, 2004 10:54 pm

I'm trying to remember ... how do you do the little Quark trick that makes the man with the laser pistol come out and vaporize an object?

Dapper Dan · **Joined:** Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:01 am **Posts:** 273

It's been a long time since I've used Quark, but as I remember, it was something like shift-control-K.

Biggdbo · **Posted:** Sat May 22, 2004 12:46 am

I believe, on a Mac, it's shift-control-apple-K.And if you do it about 5 times in a row, there's a different little animation. Oh, the things we do to amuse ourselves ...

SusanV · **Posted:** Sat May 22, 2004 11:19 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Dapper Dan:
It's been a long time since I've used Quark, but as I remember, it was something like shift-control-K.<hr></blockquote> The things I learn here!I will have to try this next week. If my system blows up, I will pin the blame on you.

EditThis · **Posted:** Sat May 22, 2004 2:47 pm

It also comes in handy when students' eyes are starting to glaze over during classroom tours. When they write their thank-you notes, at least half mention the alien.

Biggdbo · **Posted:** Sat May 22, 2004 4:51 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by SusanV:
I will have to try this next week. If my system blows up, I will pin the blame on you.<hr></blockquote>Be warned, this action will delete whatever item is selected on your page (and therefore, I don't think it will work if there is no item selected.) Of course, a simple "undo" will fix something that's accidentally deleted. But I do suggest drawing a box just to be deleted, just in case. You never know ...Also, I'm saddened to report that when using Quark on a PC (which I do), the alien does not appear. Woe is me ...

SusanV · **Posted:** Sat May 22, 2004 5:43 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Biggdbo:

Also, I'm saddened to report that when using Quark on a PC (which I do), the alien does not appear. Woe is me ...<hr></blockquote> Oh, well in that case, I'm out of luck. Too bad. I was so looking forward to an alien!

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Sun May 23, 2004 3:01 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Oeditpus Rex:
One of my favorite Quark tricks for stuff like this is increasing or reducing the horizontal/vertical scale. I just wish there were speed keys for it. (Or are there?)
[ May 21, 2004: Message edited by: Oeditpus Rex ]<hr></blockquote>Yes there are. But the practice is evil, evil I tell you.

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