Testy Copy Editors

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 Post subject: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:12 pm 
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I'd like to understand a little bit about how the youngest or newest members of your copy desk are treated. I am almost a year into my first job out of college (at a mid-sized daily), and, frankly, I have absolutely no responsibilites.
I copy edit wire stories (which yes, god yes, some of them need), and then paginate about five pages a night (I'm comfortable doing up to 10). I do not choose the stories (we don't have a "wire editor" position, so I'm basically the only person who doesn't choose his/her own stories on wire pages).
I get very little feedback from my bosses on whether or not I've done a good job, so sometimes I feel like I've been cut loose and left floating in a sea of copy all alone.
What sorts of training do some of you provide to your fresh-out-of-college hires? What responsibilities do they take on as they progress? What are the procedures for checking over their work? How long does the "learning period" last?<p>[ April 12, 2004: Message edited by: young_one ]<p>[ April 12, 2004: Message edited by: young_one ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:21 pm 
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Few newspapers have training programs per se; on the copy desk, you learn by doing.
On our desk, we treat young copy editors with respect. It doesn't hurt if you're very good and volunteer to learn to do stuff that the veterans don't care about.
It doesn't make any sense to hire novices if you aren't willing to let them grow in their jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:18 pm 
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A mid-sized daily with no wire editor? Interesting.<p>I think you'll find that little or no feedback is often standard operating procedure on copy desks. Your boss must be satisfied with your work. Keep in mind that if your boss isn't on your case, that's a good thing.<p>Your duties, as you describe them, sounds like a standard position on many copy desks on mid-sized dailies. I don't know if that's a relief to you or not. I'm taking your post literally, that you do inside wire pages only and don't do any local pages. If you've been there a year, I think that's a respectable amount of time to chat (that's chat, not whine or be perceived as whining) with your chief about at least choosing your own wire stories, or about when you can start working on local pages.<p>And remember, if you are editing stories, whatever their source, and paginating, you do have responsibilities.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:36 pm 
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Don't expect feedback, especially positive, on a copy desk. The assumption is that if there is nothing to scream about, you must be doing an OK job.<p>I used to be really skeptical of the idea that people could be copy editors right out of school rather than being a reporter first. I've mellowed on that one.<p>Good luck, and welcome to a great game.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:00 pm 
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One way to get feedback is to ask one of your bosses for it off deadline. You could bring that person several pages you've done in the past couple weeks and ask if over the next week or so he or she could look them over and make comments, such as suggesting where heds could have been better, different grafs cut from stories, etc. Such a request taps into someone else's ego, and if the person thinks you want to improve, I'd bet he or she would make at least a little time to look closely at your work. And blanp is right; you will win points if you see a thankless task that has to be done every night and volunteer for it.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:28 pm 
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Check your private messages, young_one. I am unabashedly peddling the goods of the Association of Young Journalists. Forgive me, it is my duty.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:27 pm 
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I'm the copy desk's young 'un here, and it was a bit like that for me in the first few months [came here straight out of school]. But they were shortstaffed and I was as horribly keen as can be [without being perky, she added with pride], so I got to do bigger things in time. are you annoyingly keen? Don't give up yr days off or anything, but I have to agree with blanp on volunteering. I switched my spot so I could sit next to our wire guy, then he and I switched shifts one day so I could do his job with him sitting next to me. You don't have a wire guy, i understand, but same principle?


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:30 am 
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I like to think the "learning period" lasts until the last breath. But then, I work for education folks.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:41 am 
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The other thing you can do to train yourself is start a blog and write stuff there every day. Edit your copy as if it were somebody else's. Good practice. <p>Then tell me about it and I'll link to your blog and make you world famous. Promise. <p>(Just ask P. Wiggins ... he's already chasing the groupies away).


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:08 am 
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Don't despair, Young One. Feedback is all too rare on busy desks. In my previous job, I supervised interns and new hires, along with the rest of the desk, and most nights I found myself wishing I had more time to provide feedback to everyone.<p>Sometimes, and no, it's not necessarily fair, you have to take it upon yourself. Compare your finished stories and pages with what appears in the paper. Pay attention to changes and ask slots about them in a way that shows you are trying to learn. I like someone else's suggestion that you ask a supervisor to look over your work and give you suggestions for improvement. I particularly like what seemed to be the subtext of that suggestion:
Give the slot some time to look it over. Very important if you want meaningful feedback. <p>Apart from that, I'd agree that if you're not hearing much, you're *probably* doing a nice job.<p>Good luck. Your curiosity about how you're doing and your apparent desire to grow are good signs.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by young_one:
I get very little feedback from my bosses on whether or not I've done a good job, so sometimes I feel like I've been cut loose and left floating in a sea of copy all alone. <p>
[ April 12, 2004: Message edited by: young_one ]<p>[ April 12, 2004: Message edited by: young_one ]
<hr></blockquote><p>[ April 13, 2004: Message edited by: John_Newland ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:43 pm 
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Don't underestimate your non-management co-workers as sources of feedback. Try to figure out whom your boss(es) trust and learn from how that person approaches reporters and the assigning editors. Take lessons from those who can write headlines that sing. (You might even give a trusted colleague the chance to collaborate on your headlines during a shift.)<p>As for taking on the burdensome tasks without being asked, I would be wary of that tactic. You don't want to end up pigeonholed into being the "expert" on agate (or something similarly unpleasant). Look for a project with a definitive start and end. Maybe you can shepherd a back-to-school series?<p>And remember to look beyond your publication, too. Study what ends up running on the front pages of the best papers in the nation. And learn from how veteran reporters handle the same stories for which you have the diamond-in-the-rough wire version.<p>Bonne chance.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:53 pm 
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OK, speaking of feedback, are there types of newsroom training you all would recommend? What's worked well?<p>I'll admit, I'm a fan of training -- whether it's reading Bill Walsh books, perusing this message board or attending seminars featuring other editors and reporters.<p>I work at a small paper with lots of young employees and more interns than we sometimes know what to do with. We're "fortunate" to be right next door to a big university and try to bring in a speaker or trainer every month or so. Some of these discussions have been very informative and well-received; others, well ... <p>Do you all have recommendations on what sort of in-house training works well?


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:09 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ram280:
OK, speaking of feedback, are there types of newsroom training you all would recommend? What's worked well?<p>I'll admit, I'm a fan of training -- whether it's reading Bill Walsh books, perusing this message board or attending seminars featuring other editors and reporters.<p>I work at a small paper with lots of young employees and more interns than we sometimes know what to do with. We're "fortunate" to be right next door to a big university and try to bring in a speaker or trainer every month or so. Some of these discussions have been very informative and well-received; others, well ... <p>Do you all have recommendations on what sort of in-house training works well?<hr></blockquote><p>The most productive event I can recall at my paper was when Alex Cruden of the Detroit Free Press came down to visit us in Bradenton and gave us each a very detailed critique of some of our clips. He also did a session with the whole desk, going through recent editions and providing the sort of insights you don't tend to get from your own management. The only reason this got to happen was because we were Detroit's Knight Ridder brethren, but it was every bit as engaging as Alex's "Inside Readers' Heads" forums of ACES fame (which I also heartily endorse).


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:51 pm 
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The best training , I think, is for copy editors and reporters to swap chairs for a night - or better, a week. Nothing improves lead writing like sweating out headlines, and nothing improves desk judgement like being on the scene of an accident/meeting/whatever (especially since so many copy editors these days have not been reporters).<p>I must add, however, that I have been making this recommendation for close to 30 years, at all the newspapers I've worked at, and it has never actually happened.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:53 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by D. Brooks:
The best training , I think, is for copy editors and reporters to swap chairs for a night - or better, a week. Nothing improves lead writing like sweating out headlines, and nothing improves desk judgement like being on the scene of an accident/meeting/whatever (especially since so many copy editors these days have not been reporters).<p>I must add, however, that I have been making this recommendation for close to 30 years, at all the newspapers I've worked at, and it has never actually happened.<hr></blockquote><p>I think I read about an experiment of that sort at The Miami Herald a few years ago. I have no idea how it went.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:58 pm 
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Such an experiment might work one-way. Copy editors might be able to report for, say, a week at a time but reporters can't step into copy editing for a day, week or month as a curiosity.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:37 pm 
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A friend of mine is undergoing a one-year copy editing internship at the NYT, and she says that her first three months were spent reporting -- supposedly to help her glean a "greater empathy" for reporters.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:03 pm 
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Young One, I think you are just fine. I mean, I started out writing obits and copy editing and sometimes I would go a month without my boss even noticing me or saying hi. I finally learned that was a good thing! <p>But I think you should learn what others do, too. I asked to shadow different positions and when a night came that someone was out, I said I had worked on the desk alone before, they chose me to fill in. From there I went on to bigger and better, but less-paying, things. <p>Good luck and keep your chin up.<p>GKF


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:08 pm 
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Phil is absolutely right. I mean, I like a lot of our reporters. Or at least some of them. But, except for maybe one or two exceptions, I sure as shit don't want them working on the copy desk.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:23 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Phil is absolutely right. I mean, I like a lot of our reporters. Or at least some of them. But, except for maybe one or two exceptions, I sure as shit don't want them working on the copy desk. <hr></blockquote><p>I dunno. I would trust reporters to my job better than I could do theirs. God forbid I should ever have to report on commercial real estate, financial services, energy or just about any other topic we cover here. I don't have the depth of experience -- or enough familiarity with sources -- to churn out enterprise stories on a beat day-in, day-out. And such things take a lot of time to cultivate. Luckily, that ain't my job -- I just get to make sense of it and translate it.<p>But I'm a newbie to the profession (year-and-a-half out of school) myself, so I'm probably talking out of my ass.<p>The best training I've had thusfar, other than at Dow Jones Boot Camp with Ed Trayes, was the time I spent at Poynter (I know I'm gonna catch flak for this.) . Once you weed through the pseudointellectualized gobbledygook, the folks there have some good stuff to say that actually applies to real-world journalism. Separating the wheat from the chaff is what's difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:42 pm 
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With the possible exception of "Listen Up...This is Simple" - which I have not had the chance to attend but has received rave reviews from people I trust -- I can't imagine a seminar having any value whatsoever.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:44 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by contrarysounding:
...Supposedly to help her glean a "greater empathy" for reporters.<hr></blockquote><p>Oddly, I am not interested in greater "empathy" for reporters.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:37 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blanp:
Such an experiment might work one-way. Copy editors might be able to report for, say, a week at a time but reporters can't step into copy editing for a day, week or month as a curiosity.<hr></blockquote><p>When I mention this idea to reporters, they all say exactly the same thing - except the other way around: "We could be copy editors, but no way those guys could leave the building and actually do interviews and fit a story into 12 inches!" ... I think both sides would be lousy at each others' jobs (unless they had prior experience), but would do their own jobs better when it was over.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:58 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
<p>Oddly, I am not interested in greater "empathy" for reporters.<hr></blockquote>Me, either. I don't see any purpose in that whatsoever. <p>I have no interest in reporting. I would be dreadful at it. Similarly, while we have some wonderfully talented writers here, I highly doubt that any of 'em could do my job nearly half as well I as I do. And that's fine with me!


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:58 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by D. Brooks:
The best training , I think, is for copy editors and reporters to swap chairs for a night - or better, a week. Nothing improves lead writing like sweating out headlines, and nothing improves desk judgement like being on the scene of an accident/meeting/whatever (especially since so many copy editors these days have not been reporters).<p>I must add, however, that I have been making this recommendation for close to 30 years, at all the newspapers I've worked at, and it has never actually happened.<hr></blockquote><p>I worked at a paper that PROPOSED doing that.
.
A copy editor with reporting experience trailed a City Hall reporter for a few days, then wrote her own stories, which were fine. No big deal to her.<p>I was skedded to be the next to "try" reporting. That was canceled, however, because I was deemed [ahem] too valuable to spare from the copy desk for a week. (I took one sick day in nine years. How the paper published while I was out that day or on vacation remains a mystery.)<p>No reporter ever tried the week as a copy editor. The editor in chief explained it thusly: The reporters were so dedicated to their beats that they wouldn't leave them for a week. I asked about their taking vacations and received the blank stare.<p>An obstacle for reporters spending time on the copy desk is that some desks have such complicated processes that it would take a week just to learn them. I'm thinking of pagination plus whatever hooey and tradition is established at the publication.<p>(Side note: The TV reporter-features copy editor trade for a day is always a sad joke because the copy editor chosen invariably takes it seriously and the TV face is given only a few simple tasks to do between schmoozing with executives, posing for the camera and a long lunch.)<p>Job trades always seemed like a good idea to me; few reporters understand the difficulties of copy editing, and fewer copy editors than used to have reporting experience. But I don't think cross-training is crucial at most publications.<p>[ April 16, 2004: Message edited by: Wayne Countryman ]<p>[ April 16, 2004: Message edited by: Wayne Countryman ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:55 pm 
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Don't worry. You'll be skating along, thinking you're doing great (because you've had no feedback), then come evaluation time you'll be downgraded for something you did three months ago and told to hang in there, you'll get better.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:29 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by D. Brooks:
The best training , I think, is for copy editors and reporters to swap chairs for a night - or better, a week. Nothing improves lead writing like sweating out headlines, and nothing improves desk judgement like being on the scene of an accident/meeting/whatever (especially since so many copy editors these days have not been reporters).<p>I must add, however, that I have been making this recommendation for close to 30 years, at all the newspapers I've worked at, and it has never actually happened.<hr></blockquote>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:24 pm 
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D,<p>I appreciate your good intentions, but I recommend you stop making such a suggestion. The result might be a poorly reported newspaper; then again, it might be a better-reported newspaper.<p>But I can assure you of one thing: it'll be a badly EDITED newspaper.<p>[ April 16, 2004: Message edited by: Bumfketeer ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:04 pm 
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I know of one columnist, a woman with an unusually broad and flexible mind, who spent some time on a copy desk. I gathered that she edited fairly well, and she came away with an appreciation for what the editors had to put up with. Between the hours and the complexities of the job, I have never heard of another writer taking up the challenge. <p>I work with a couple of ex-assistant metro editors. As you might expect, they're especially good at finding holes in stories (it's what they learned first), and they never hesitate to call someone up in the middle of the night and thrash out a question.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:32 am 
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In two papers where I worked, I filled in on the copy desk during the summer for three or four weeks a year and I must say the experience snapped up my writing in the months after it.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:15 pm 
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I sometimes think I learned more about reporting and writing *after* I moved to the copy desk, than before. And I'll never forget the look on my ME's face when I told him, less than a week into the new job, "Hey, those story deadlines really *are* important."


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:40 pm 
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I once had a reporter stand behind me at 11:50 p.m. (deadline was midnight) and ask, "So, does it really make it hard for you guys to finish on time if our stories are late?"<p>She'd been at the paper about three years at that point.<p>What do you say to something like that? I honestly can't recall what I said in reply but I'm sure it was way too polite.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:04 pm 
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My newspaper once had a policy of throwing the newest copy editor on 1A almost immediately after being hired, and with little preparation.<p>That policy changed after they went through a fair number of people. I was the first one hired after the change and, I'm happy to say, I'm still with the paper after nearly six years. They didn't put me on 1A until roughly six months after I was hired. Before then, I did inside section fronts and pages.<p>Suffice to say, throwing newbies into the woodchipper doesn't work. But my paper, I hope, is now wiser in that sense. I still wish they'd give new hires more "mentoring," though, especially if they've no experience. Ah, well, can't get everything you want.<p>Gatekeeper<p>-30-<p>P.S. Are there any papers where there's a copy editor or two who never does 1A?


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:06 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gatekeeper:
<p>P.S. Are there any papers where there's a copy editor or two who never does 1A?<hr></blockquote><p>Yes. At some papers, especially large ones where the staff specializes, a copy editor could go for years or decades working only on local or business sections and never work on 1A. <p>This can be true even of good copy editors.<p>At large papers, it's common for the copy desk to be split into smaller ones devoted to particular sections or even particular kinds of stories. More than one of these desks (for instance, national and international) might work on the A section, let alone 1A.
When a desk becomes understaffed temporarily (because of vacations, sickness, extra work) or permanently (turnover, increase in responsibility), people on other desks might transfer to it temporarily or permanently. Some staffs have copy editors who jump from desk to desk as needed, as a reporting staff has general-assignment reporters.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:43 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ray Coniglio:
And I'll never forget the look on my ME's face when I told him, less than a week into the new job, "Hey, those story deadlines really *are* important."<hr></blockquote><p>Hi, Ray! Good to see a former colleague is still soldiering on in Batavia.
By the way, I'm trying to remember the name of the reporter who, whenever I called the bureau office, would answer the phone with "Five more minutes!"


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:44 pm 
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"Five more minutes," huh? Doesn't sound like me. Might have been the other guy. And as I recall, you *seldom* called the bureau!<p>————<p>"I 'Congo' all night ..."


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:50 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Matthew Grieco:
I once had a reporter stand behind me at 11:50 p.m. (deadline was midnight) and ask, "So, does it really make it hard for you guys to finish on time if our stories are late?"<p>What do you say to something like that?....<hr></blockquote><p>"Leave."


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:09 am 
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Location: Upper Midwest
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Wayne Countryman:
<p>Yes. At some papers, especially large ones where the staff specializes, a copy editor could go for years or decades working only on local or business sections and never work on 1A. <p>This can be true even of good copy editors.<p>At large papers, it's common for the copy desk to be split into smaller ones devoted to particular sections or even particular kinds of stories. More than one of these desks (for instance, national and international) might work on the A section, let alone 1A.
When a desk becomes understaffed temporarily (because of vacations, sickness, extra work) or permanently (turnover, increase in responsibility), people on other desks might transfer to it temporarily or permanently. Some staffs have copy editors who jump from desk to desk as needed, as a reporting staff has general-assignment reporters.
<hr></blockquote><p>Fascinating. Obviously, I work at a smaller daily (16,000 weekday/18,000 Sunday) and our copydesk is nowhere near that specialized.<p>There's only 6.5 (yep, you read right) copy editors where I work, and most of the 1A duties fall to either myself or another colleague, although 3 of the remaining 4.5 copy editors are 1A qualified as well (they do it once a week or so).<p>Gatekeeper<p>-30-


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:57 pm 
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Location: Cusp of retirement, grave or both
We used to have a copy editor who was both one-eyed and a drunk. Does that count as half a copy editor?


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:07 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by young_one:
I copy edit wire stories (which yes, god yes, some of them need), and then paginate about five pages a night (I'm comfortable doing up to 10).<hr></blockquote><p>I'm curious about the growing practice of refusing to capitalize "God." Does this transgression of the traditional rules of capitalization reflect atheism, or mere negligence? Even The New York Times, hardly a friend of religion, still capitalizes "God."<p>[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Steve O'Brien ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:54 pm 
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Location: Saranac Lake, N.Y.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
We used to have a copy editor who was both one-eyed and a drunk. Does that count as half a copy editor?<hr></blockquote><p>And he had a temper like Polyphemus.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:36 pm 
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Posts: 2266
Location: New Jersey
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Steve O'Brien:
<p>I'm curious about the growing practice of refusing to capitalize "God." Does this transgression of the traditional rules of capitalization reflect atheism, or mere negligence? Even The New York Times, hardly a friend of religion, still capitalizes "God."<p>[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Steve O'Brien ]<hr></blockquote><p>I was unaware of this trend.<p>I'm a hardcore atheist, but I would always capitalize God when referring to the deity envisioned by the large monotheistic religions. But I do so on the theory that, if nothing else, named fictional characters should be capitalized.<p>[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Matthew Grieco ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:38 pm 
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Location: Homebush NSW Australia
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
We used to have a copy editor who was both one-eyed and a drunk. Does that count as half a copy editor?<hr></blockquote>
The expression is sports fan, I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:40 pm 
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Location: Bethesda, Md.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
We used to have a copy editor who was both one-eyed and a drunk. Does that count as half a copy editor?<hr></blockquote><p>When he called in sick, it was like having two extra hands on the desk.


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 Post subject: Re: how do you treat the young ones?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:46 pm 
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Location: The Lexington Avenue Spaceship
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ray Coniglio:
[QBAnd as I recall, you *seldom* called the bureau!
QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Lies! Slander! I called the bureau at least once a week, to find out where we were going for lunch.


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