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 Post subject: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:08 am 
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Location: San Jose, CA
From Maureen Dowd's column <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr> Our troops in Iraq don't know who they're fighting and who they're saving. They don't know when they're coming home or when they're being forcibly re-upped by Rummy. Our diplomats in Baghdad don't know who they're handing the country over to next month. And Bush officials don't know where to go for help, since the military's tapped out, the allies have cold feet, the Arab world's angry and the rest of the globe is thinking, "You got what you deserved." <hr></blockquote><p>Shouldn't these who's be whoms?


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:25 am 
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Location: Saranac Lake, N.Y.
Yeah, if you want to get grammatical.


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:35 am 
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Can we assume the Times is telling us the whom distinction is officially dead? I mean, obviously somebody on the copy desk would've said, "you know, maureen, proper grammar is 'whom,' and she must've said, 'would you be a dear and grant me an exception on this? It just looks better as 'who.' <p>Mr. Walsh: Is this a rule that's not a rule anymore?


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:12 am 
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Location: Inner Baltimore
It's just a stylistic thing. She's affecting a loose, conversational style in which "whom" would sound forced. No big deal, considering the crap that finds it way into a lot of columns.


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:53 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JPSheehan:
... affecting a loose, conversational style in which "whom" would sound forced. <hr></blockquote><p>
Is there ever a time when whom doesn't sound forced?


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:28 pm 
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Originally posted by tom mangan:
Is there ever a time when whom doesn't sound forced?<p>No, and that's part of the reason for its appeal. "Whom," I'm thinking, is one of those syntactical signifiers that reinforces, through its overt formality, a sense of deliberate objectivity. To some degree, dogged adherence to seemingly outdated forms is a necessary and unavoidable function of style.


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:32 pm 
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I just read my last post again, and now it seems kinda pedantic and obvious. Can you tell I work a college communications office?


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:33 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:
<p>
Is there ever a time when whom doesn't sound forced?
<hr></blockquote><p>I suppose it depends on whom you ask.


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:16 pm 
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Location: cloudsville
Try this: "To Who It May Concern"


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:26 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:
<p>
Is there ever a time when whom doesn't sound forced?
<hr></blockquote><p>I'd say it sounds natural after any preposition. "The person to who the package was shipped" and "the person of who I was speaking" both sound pretty odd.<p>[ April 08, 2004: Message edited by: tafkats ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: who or whom?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:14 am 
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Location: The Herald in Everett, WA
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JPSheehan:
I just read my last post again, and now it seems kinda pedantic and obvious. Can you tell I work a college communications office?<hr></blockquote><p>Only if you write "curriculum vitae" instead of "resume."


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