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 Post subject: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:00 am 
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Question: What is the correct AP style for writing the emergency phone number 9-1-1? And what is the correct AP style for writing 9/11 (or what is preferred for references to Sept. 11, 2001)?


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:22 am 
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There is no AP stylebook entry on the emergency phone number but "911" is universally used. AP style for the day of the attacks is "9-11," although it says "Sept. 11 is the preferred term." "9/11" seems to be more widely used but that's just my impression. <p>AP stylebooks may be purchased here.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:52 pm 
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A couple of the out-of-town newspapers I read online use 9-1-1 for the phone number. I'm guessing that in each case someone thinks it easier to read, but I don't agree with that at all. I find it jarring.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:37 am 
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Which reminds me of the stoopidest thing said on TV during the attacks on the towers.<p>With both towers aflame, a talking head (wish I recalled who or which station) actually said: "Well, we don't know the reason for this attack. But today is Sept. 11. That's 9/11. Perhaps there could be some tie-in to 911, the emergency phone number. Perhaps they did it on 9/11 so Americans would always remember 911...a true emergency...'


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:19 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blanp:
AP style for the day of the attacks is "9-11," although it says "Sept. 11 is the preferred term." "9/11" seems to be more widely used but that's just my impression.<hr></blockquote><p>Actually, blanp, AP style for the day of the attacks is listed under "9/11," followed by the entry "Sept. 11 is the preferred term." The term "9-11" doesn't even appear in the AP Stylebook, at least not the online edition.<p>As I recall, about a year ago AP tried making "9-11" the style, but then reversed its decision in about a week. Apparently, there was much dissention in the ranks. AP's current entry seems to be saying to its members, "You don't like '9-11'? Well, you can't use '9/11' either!"


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:58 am 
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The "9-11" entry appears in the most recent printed edition of the stylebook. The brouhaha must have occurred after its publication.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:06 pm 
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Correct, with the online edition. Unfortunately, even the most recent print edition is now outdated in several respects, including this one.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:52 pm 
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The reason the emergency number is printed as 9-1-1 is so that everyone presses the correct sequence of numbers on their phone in an emergency. (A time of muddled thinking -- much like the years of the Reagan administration). There is no 11 on the phone, ergo 9-1-1.<p>It makes more sense, then, to differentiate the two numbers as 9-1-1 and 9/11 but what do I know, I'm not a reporter. (See other post thread...)


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:55 pm 
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I used to think the blonde jokes, etc., about there being no "11" on the phone were based on a false premise, because NOBODY said nine-eleven. EVERYBODY said nine-one-one.<p>Now I'm not so sure, because half the idiots pontificating about 9/11 pronounce it nine-one-one. <p>But I don't think writing "911" as "9-1-1" solves anything.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:26 pm 
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Not really related, but I am reminded that I had to scratch my head the other day when a CNN announcer referred to last year as "twenty-oh-three."


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:14 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by contrarysounding:
Not really related...<hr></blockquote>Twenty-five years ago, when I was covering the Voyager 1 Jupiter fly-by at JPL, I overheard a news reader announce that active volcanoes had been observed on the moon "Ten". (For those of you who are not astronomy buffs, that's "Io".)<p>I'm still waiting to hear someone reminisce about the good old days of "aught two".<p>D.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:19 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DominEditrix:
I'm still waiting to hear someone reminisce about the good old days of "aught two".
<hr></blockquote><p>That would have been much less jarring to me than deciding to do away with the convention of calling this decade the "two thousands," by cracky.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:46 pm 
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I've wondered for a while whether I was missing the boat by not subscribing to AP's online stylebook. Anyone have thoughts on using the online version? Are the updates and features worthwhile? Or, should I just keep buying new print versions every other year (spiral-bound, please)?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Kirchherr:
Correct, with the online edition. Unfortunately, even the most recent print edition is now outdated in several respects, including this one.<hr></blockquote><p>[ April 14, 2004: Message edited by: ram280 ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:40 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr> Originally posted by DominEditrix:
I'm still waiting to hear someone reminisce about the good old days of "aught two". <hr></blockquote><p>Or, as Jethro Bodine might put it, this year is "double-nought four"


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:31 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ram280:
I've wondered for a while whether I was missing the boat by not subscribing to AP's online stylebook. Anyone have thoughts on using the online version? Are the updates and features worthwhile? Or, should I just keep buying new print versions every other year (spiral-bound, please)?<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, AP's online stylebook is definitely worth the small subscription. Better yet to talk your company into getting a site license.<p>My biggest frustration with the book version was not being able to find what I needed where I expected to find it. This is a nonissue with the online version: Type in a word or phrase, and every stylebook entry that has it will appear on a list of clickable links. What's more, you can add your own notes to AP's entries. And if your paper has a site license, AP will incorporate your paper's stylebook into your paper's online stylebook. The search function will look through your own notes and your paper's style rules as well as the standard AP entries.<p>You have no idea how much time all this saves, especially when you have to deal with two stylebooks (AP and in-house). Meanwhile, paper AP Stylebooks have become as difficult to find in our newsroom as pica poles and photo-sizing wheels.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:02 pm 
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What does the online book cost?


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:24 pm 
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We've been using the online stylebook (with a site license for all 10 editors) for about six months, and it works great. I like being able to enter our own style entries. <p>Although I did run into something disconcerting last week: AP has decided that the ages for inanimates should be spelled out (only under 10); God only knows why. I did send them an e-mail asking for a rationale, but haven't heard back yet. This will be in the 2004 print edition, but it's already in the online edition.
I say stop the madness! <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ram280:
I've wondered for a while whether I was missing the boat by not subscribing to AP's online stylebook. Anyone have thoughts on using the online version? Are the updates and features worthwhile? Or, should I just keep buying new print versions every other year (spiral-bound, please)?<p> <p>[ April 14, 2004: Message edited by: ram280 ]<hr></blockquote>


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:28 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ADKbrown:
What does the online book cost?<hr></blockquote><p>Since I was online at the time, that was a stupid question. In case anybody else is curious, it's $20.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:29 pm 
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Forgot to mention that I saw a hed in NYT today that used "9/11."


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:05 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JJ:
Although I did run into something disconcerting last week: AP has decided that the ages for inanimates should be spelled out (only under 10); God only knows why. I did send them an e-mail asking for a rationale, but haven't heard back yet. This will be in the 2004 print edition, but it's already in the online edition.
I say stop the madness! <p>
<hr></blockquote> That's actually not uncommon (not to mention Snews style for many years), although I'm having a hard time finding a reference book to back it up.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:52 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JJ:
I did run into something disconcerting last week: AP has decided that the ages for inanimates should be spelled out (only under 10); God only knows why. I did send them an e-mail asking for a rationale, but haven't heard back yet. This will be in the 2004 print edition, but it's already in the online edition. I say stop the madness!<hr></blockquote><p>I agree with the last sentence. Fortunately, so does my boss, a reasonable woman, who also believes that the latest in a series of rules that AP has tried to slip through is just plain silly. This won't be the first time that our paper's style will override a bizarre new AP style.<p>If the purpose of AP style is impressing readers with our consistency, I don't see how we can do that with sentences like "The 5-year-old boy sat on the eight-year-old table."<p>I really wish the AP Stylebook cabal would spend less time thinking up new rules that nobody wants, and more time updating the book's many ludicrously outdated entries.<p>[ April 16, 2004: Message edited by: Gary Kirchherr ]</p>


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:39 am 
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Is AP's the only stylebook to adopt that rule? I seem to remember coming across it elsewhere. What is NYT style?


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:04 am 
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Gary Kircherr wrote: ... "I really wish the AP Stylebook cabal would spend less time thinking up new rules that nobody wants, and more time updating the book's many ludicrously outdated entries."<p>Gary, you've got my vote!


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:04 am 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gary Kirchherr:
<p>If the purpose of AP style is impressing readers with our consistency, I don't see how we can do that with sentences like "The 5-year-old boy sat on the eight-year-old table."<p>[ April 16, 2004: Message edited by: Gary Kirchherr ]<hr></blockquote> See, and when I read that, 8-year-old has me thinking another child before I get to the word table. Again, this may be partly because that is how we do it, but I know I've encountered this style in many, many other places as well, and it's not at all jarring to me.


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:40 pm 
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This just in from the AP stylebook editor, Norm Goldstein: they "clarified" the ages entry, because inaminates do not have ages "in the same sense" as people or animals. Well he's right, they don't celebrate birthdays. But then neither does my cat. <p>Frankly I just violated this new rule right now, and I'm so happy!


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 Post subject: Re: 9-1-1 & 9/11
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:53 pm 
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JJ:
This just in from the AP stylebook editor, Norm Goldstein: they "clarified" the ages entry, because inaminates do not have ages "in the same sense" as people or animals. Well he's right, they don't celebrate birthdays. But then neither does my cat.
<hr></blockquote><p>For something that's a "2-year-old something," the same amount of time has passed whether we're talking tots or legislation. It's a silly-ass rule that looks to the reader like someone made a mistake (someboday has: AP), and I hope my boss doesn't read this thread and want to adopt that style.<p>My cats celebrate their birthdays, whether they like it or not, those ungrateful creatures!


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