Serif vs. Sans Serif

pampellfw · **Joined:** Thu Apr 25, 2002 12:01 am **Posts:** 38

Can anyone point me to a reference (online or hardcover book) that will explain whether serif type is more readable than sans serif for body copy? I'm not talking about in newspapers, specifically, but in general printed matter, including business correspondence and/or Web sites.Thanks.

majorbabs · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:34 am

The general theory is that people learn to read with serif type -- textbooks, newspapers, magazines -- and so it's easier for them to recognize a word in serif type than in sans serif type.I don't know if this is a Rudolph Flesch "readability" issue or not, but try googling "Flesch" and also google for a good typography site to see if it can give you a reference.

ShiningPath · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:57 am

Try "The Elements of Typographic Style" by Robert Bringhurst. It appears that Europeans find sans serif type more readable (reportedly, more schoolbooks use sans serif there), while the opposite is true of Americans, who are used to serif fonts such as Century Schoolbook. It appears to be a "nurture" issue, with the question of what's naturally better left unsettled.[ February 26, 2004: Message edited by: ShiningPath ]

KfitzR · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:08 pm

Oddly enough I have been fairly consistently told that serif is better in text and sans serif better on the web. Not sure how our eyeballs make the distinction.

DominEditrix · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:03 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by pampellfw:
...whether serif type is more readable than sans serif for body copy?<hr></blockquote>In my experience, there is a considerable difference between what is more easily readable on a printed page and what is more easily readable on a monitor. That said, I have to admit that I prefer sans serif typefaces in print when the type size is particularly small. I do art direction/layout for a guild newsletter and, when I have to reduce the type size significantly for a particularly long article, I switch to san serif immediately to avoid the serif closing/serif disappearing problem. [Note: these articles are typically written by the guild's president. No one is permitted to edit a single golden word, despite her tendency to ramble and her Victorian sentence structure.] I would stick with traditional serif typefaces for business letters, working under the (completely unproven, and possibly irrational) assumption that a traditional appearance is expected, and that it provides a certain psychological comfort level for the reader. Visually, I prefer sans serif on a screen - again, the issue is often that of serif closing/serif disappearing. (But then, I also favour minimalist design in my furniture.) I suspect it's largely idiosyncractic, and probably somewhat age-related. Those who were raised on Wired expect something different from that expected by those who were raised on the print version of The Saturday Evening Post, the online version of which now uses a sans serif typeface.The following articles on the web may be helpful:Type1Type2Type3Type4Type5D.[ February 26, 2004: Message edited by: DominEditrix ]

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:45 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by KfitzR:
Oddly enough I have been fairly consistently told that serif is better in text and sans serif better on the web. Not sure how our eyeballs make the distinction.<hr></blockquote>
That observation would be correct. All to do with light this erstwhile litho man imagines[ February 26, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:00 pm

Who's to say? We switched typefaces on this Web site because the sans serif Helvetica was too difficult to read. The current face may not be stylish, but I haven't had any complaints since it was adopted.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:48 pm

Thought that might come up. I find this font pleasant in this context. It reminds me of an important point of typography: don't forget to cater for the testy old codgers like myself by keeping the size at a decent size.[ February 26, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:08 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by blanp:
Who's to say? We switched typefaces on this Web site because the sans serif Helvetica was too difficult to read. The current face may not be stylish, but I haven't had any complaints since it was adopted.<hr></blockquote>On the contrary. In fact, it's very easy to read your lede story: "Rosie O'Donnell, partner wed."

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:26 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jjmoney62:
On the contrary. In fact, it's very easy to read your lede story: "Rosie O'Donnell, partner wed."<hr></blockquote>This Web site, pal. I have nothing to do with that.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:10 pm

i knew i should have stayed out of a discussion of fonts ...

pzicari · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:14 am

This seems to be a good place to tell someone that this otherwise excellent message board comes to ME in 24-point Wide Latin, which looks like "Venus Bold Extended" in that lovely old typographer's poem.I don't want to whine about it, but it makes me paranoid; my boss can surely read it from across the room!

Rio · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:55 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Pete Zicari:
This seems to be a good place to tell someone that this otherwise excellent message board comes to ME in 24-point Wide Latin, which looks like "Venus Bold Extended" in that lovely old typographer's poem.I don't want to whine about it, but it makes me paranoid; my boss can surely read it from across the room!<hr></blockquote>Just reduce the text size for this page while you're reading it at work. In the Mac version of Internet Explorer, you change it with the "Text Zoom" command, under the "View" menu. The Windows version of Explorer I'm sure has a similar command in a similar place.

majorbabs · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:59 am

I think the Internet Tools menu has a place to set the size and color of copy. Prowl around a bit.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:29 pm

Tools menus, like control panels, can be Te Whare Tangiwha (the home of the monster). Let's be careful out there.[ March 01, 2004: Message edited by: Paul Wiggins ]

Dyslexic · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:34 am

Since it came up, I'll leave a short remark about fonts used in this bulletin board.The font has been changed twice since this site went online. The first was a change to Times from Helvetica, which is the default font for the bulletin board software used here. Times is easier to read, especially on Windows. On some systems, Times isn't a good choice. So, the font was changed a few months later to use the browser's default serif font. In many cases, the default serif font looks ridiculous, but readers can change it to something more suitable instead of being stuck with any particular font.

paulwiggins · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:55 am

Most informative, thank you. Where does one find the box that tells what the default font is?

Finn DeSiecle · **Posted:** Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:00 pm

If you're on Internet Explorer for Windows:-- From the Tools pull-down menu, pick Internet Options
-- In the multi-tab dialog box that appears, you should be on the General tab; if not, click that tab.
-- Click the Fonts button along the bottom of the dialog box. A second dialog box appears.
-- Your default font shows up in the list headed "Web page font," with an example displayed below. If you want to change it, click another font name, then click the OK button on the font box, then OK again on the original box.It's easier to do than it sounds here.

Theothermike · **Posted:** Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:19 pm

Getting back to the original question on this thread: one of my professors from graduate school, Patsy Sims, told a story about how an editor rejected a book manuscript and told her to revise it. All she did was change the font from Arial to Courier. The editor praised her changes and accepted the book.

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