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 Post subject: Gender bender
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 744
Location: HuskerLand
I'm writing a story about a program that focuses on women scientists and there's a healthy debate over "female" versus "woman" as the adjective defining "scientist." For example, "Girls in 9th to 12th grades are encouraged to learn about women scientists and their contributions to society." Would "female scientists" be better, since it's important to note the gender? Advice and comments sought. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 3135
Location: Albuquerque, N.M. USA
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by majorbabs:
I'm writing a story about a program that focuses on women scientists and there's a healthy debate over "female" versus "woman" as the adjective defining "scientist." For example, "Girls in 9th to 12th grades are encouraged to learn about women scientists and their contributions to society." Would "female scientists" be better, since it's important to note the gender? <hr></blockquote><p>Absolutely.<p>Female is the adjective. Using woman/women as an adjective often comes across as a pejorative. (Like the old rants against "women drivers," etc.) We don't use "men" as an adjective.<p>This should be basic AP style.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 63
Location: Taxation Without Representation
yeah, female is the adjective, woman is the noun.<p>I find it far more grating to hear "female" as a noun than to hear "woman" as an adjective, though.<p>The worst is when "female" gets made into a plural noun. It always seems to be used by some fairly young guy who's frustrated with his love life. Damn females, just won't do what he wants them to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 598
Location: The Herald in Everett, WA
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by majorbabs:
I'm writing a story about a program that focuses on women scientists and there's a healthy debate over "female" versus "woman" as the adjective defining "scientist." For example, "Girls in 9th to 12th grades are encouraged to learn about women scientists and their contributions to society." Would "female scientists" be better, since it's important to note the gender? Advice and comments sought. Thanks.<hr></blockquote><p>I'm sometimes in the minority, but I consider "female scientist" correct. I hate "woman scientist," "woman doctor," etc. Fortunately, such constructions are seldom necessary. Still, I still see wire services point out that so-and-so is a "female soldier," and that just annoys the hell out of me. Same for "male nurse," which I see periodically.<p>I'm glad most of that business has (mostly) fallen by the wayside. Remember back in the good ol' days when you constantly had to remind city desk that it's fireFIGHTER and police OFFICER, etc.?


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 840
Location: Ashland, Ore.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jackie:
Remember back in the good ol' days when you constantly had to remind city desk that it's fireFIGHTER and police OFFICER, etc.?<hr></blockquote><p>Yes. At my last job.<p>My take on these PC creations is that we are, in fact, depriving the nebulous reader of a piece of information by neutering such a person.<p>If three "police officers" who happen to all be male release a report, where, pray tell, is the harm in saying that "policemen" prepared the report?<p>On the fire end (consider my tender age, here), I've never seen "firemen" doing anything. Firefighters do all manner of things, but to me, "fireman" belongs in such a construction as "three firemen took on an ice-berg."<p>I agree that in cases where people of both sexes were involved, the neutered version is appropriate. But I question whether the reporting of six female police officers apprehending a suspect would be so looked down upon if they were referred to as "policewomen."


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 9:49 am 
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Posts: 3135
Location: Albuquerque, N.M. USA
I think you've made exactly the opposite point you intended to make, Pete.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 63
Location: Taxation Without Representation
Indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender bender
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:01 am
Posts: 309
Location: Upper Midwest
<blockquote><font size="1" face="TImes, TimesNR, serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jackie:
... Remember back in the good ol' days when you constantly had to remind city desk that it's fireFIGHTER and police OFFICER, etc.?[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>I still sometimes have to edit that sort of usage, and not from the older, more experienced reporters, but from twentysomethings (i.e. my generation).<p>Gatekeeper<p>-30-


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