When the tide of life turns against you ...

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:42 pm

Not to get too maudlin or off-topic in here, but this monumental year of death continues with the passing of Art Carney. Now there was a funny man.

Jackie · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:09 am

As bad as today's wire budget was, I am totally guilty of almost brightly announcing, "Oh! Art Carney died." And I just hate it when I do that.

Rio · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:28 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by JL Creighton:
i got SERIOUS grief at work for not knowing who he was (i WAS born in 1983 and in my defense the other youngins here didn't know who he was either).... which leads me to beg the question, how CAN i know about this stuff ?!<hr></blockquote>First off, you weren't "begging the question."Second, you can't know all this stuff. You pick it up as you go along. Besides, you're only 20. You haven't had time yet to accumulate all the knowledge in the universe. That generally doesn't happen to copy editors until they're 30.

Oeditpus Rex · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:34 pm

Okay... enough lurking.
<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by JL Creighton:
how CAN i know about this stuff ?!<hr></blockquote>
Well... you could watch "The Honeymooners." I'm sure it's still in syndication in many parts of the country. But it's pretty ridiculous to ask young'uns to spend hours in front of the teevee so they'll know who's who in the obits.'course, if you had, you could've scored points with the old guard by reciting:When the tide of life turns against you
and the current upsets your boat
don't waste those tears on what might have been
just lay on your back and float
~ Ed Norton

Jackie · **Posted:** Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:24 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by JL Creighton:
i got SERIOUS grief at work for not knowing who he was (i WAS born in 1983 and in my defense the other youngins here didn't know who he was either).... which leads me to beg the question, how CAN i know about this stuff ?!<hr></blockquote>I had to explain who Art Carney was to our year-out-of-school copy editor. And why on earth *would* she know who he was? You think I could look at a current Top 10 music list and hum a few bars of anything on it? Bet the people giving you grief couldn't either.

Oeditpus Rex · **Posted:** Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:10 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jackie:
You think I could look at a current Top 10 music list and hum a few bars of anything on it? Bet the people giving you grief couldn't either.<hr></blockquote>
TouchÃ©. The most recent "current" song I could identify is probably "All Star," and it's gotta be in the oldies rotation by now.We shouldn't expect them to know our stuff if we don't know theirs.

gunslinger · **Posted:** Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:08 am

Here's a perspective from someone who knows who Art Carney was.A couple of years ago I was trolling through the wire when I came upon news of a plane crash on some faraway island. I muttered out loud, to no one in particular, "Some singer died in a plane crash. Who cares? What's with this Aaliyah chick anyway?"Another copy editor, a generation (possibly two) younger, blurted, "Oh, no! Aaliyah died?!?"To which I replied, "So I should really care, huh? I guess I'll give her a graph on some wire page."Well, she proceeded to explain to me that the youngins out there would really, really care. So Aaliyah got more than a mere graph. A story, updated as warranted.However, this young gal gave me grief over this for the next year whenever she could. Especially as the followup stories trickled in and the film came out.The point here being that sometimes you're too young and sometimes you're too old. It's really not worth worrying about. Just consider it your contribution to newsroom entertainment.

Jackie · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2003 1:21 am

Gunslinger, that really made me laugh because I had a similar experience with a copy editor in her 20s when I was doing wire the day Aaliyah died. As in, "Trust me, Jackie, she's a big deal." Hell, I had to get this copy editor to pronounce the name! LOL!

Oeditpus Rex · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2003 3:03 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by gunslinger:
Well, she proceeded to explain to me that the youngins out there would really, really care. <hr></blockquote>
But they don't read the paper. At least not the 'A' section. And 25 inches with art isn't gonna spark a rush on the racks by the 13-25 set.Wait for the big obit from the wire and run it as the entertainment lead. In the 'A' section it gets 10 inches. Yeah, I'm old. But this is about news judgement.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:01 pm

While we can't be experts on every topic, there are, alas, some pop culture touchstones we all need to be aware of, especially if we take spins inthe budget meeting. Art Carney is definitely a notable obit. His appeal spans generations. No, he isn't a hit these days with the kids and hipsters, but he isn't completely unknown to those of us born after the golden age of TV comedy. Some fine culture does get handed down from father to son. I was reminded of that this weekend when I observed a 6-year-old watching "Mr. Ed" on TV. And while we can't all be eternally hip and plugged in, we should have a passing awareness of not only the political events of Georgia but also the fact that a month or two ago, for the first time, every top ten Billboard song was rap/hip-hop/r&b. We needn't be able to sing along to "Baby Boy" (tho it's fun to do while driving fast on a warm sunny day), but we should know it's out there. As this month's Harper's reminds us, all it takes is about 45 minutes listening to a Clear Channel hits station to catch yourself up.Otherwise, you're in danger of watching your waistline grow and having someone remark to you some day: "How can somebody so round be so square?"

Emily Salmon · **Joined:** Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:01 am **Posts:** 86

Reminds me of the time the 50-something reporter sitting next to me got on the phone, called directory assistance, and said, in all seriousness, "For New York : the number for Sean 'Puffy' Coombs"[ November 24, 2003: Message edited by: Emily Salmon ]

Rio · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:00 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jjmoney62:
We needn't be able to sing along to "Baby Boy" (tho it's fun to do while driving fast on a warm sunny day), but we should know it's out there. As this month's Harper's reminds us, all it takes is about 45 minutes listening to a Clear Channel hits station to catch yourself up.<hr></blockquote>While I agree that we should know something about pop culture (along with everything else), I don't believe listening to 45 minutes of crappy modern music is a time-efficient way to do it. I'll take my chances with being square.

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