Let's help out the NYT

majorbabs · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:13 am

One of the least-clear headlines I've read recently in today's NYT: "Iraqi Tribes G.I.'s Ask for Help Say They Can't"What about, Iraqi Tribes Refuse to Help G.I.'s? Better choices?

Rio · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:57 pm

Good grief. "The Paper of Wreckage" is in even worse shape than I thought.Sorry, I can't come up with a better suggestion for a headline. Not unless someone tells me what the verb is.[ November 11, 2003: Message edited by: Gary Kirchherr ]

Powderhorn · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:27 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by majorbabs:
"Iraqi Tribes G.I.'s Ask for Help Say They Can't"<hr></blockquote>It took your suggestion to make me realize what the hell the hed was supposed to mean. My brain took two approaches before I was stymied:1) "Tribe" must be the verb.
2) The second deck is missing.1 works until you hit "ask" and 2 is presumably out. Hed and shoulders above anything I've seen this year for obfuscation.

majorbabs · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:18 am

How about, "No Help for G.I.s from Iraqi Tribes?"

ADKbrown · **Posted:** Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:56 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by majorbabs:
One of the least-clear headlines I've read recently in today's NYT: "Iraqi Tribes G.I.'s Ask for Help Say They Can't"What about, Iraqi Tribes Refuse to Help G.I.'s? Better choices?<hr></blockquote>Was the apostrophe after "G.I." in the original? That just adds to the confusion. Something like "Iraqi tribes rebuff GIs' request for help" might work (though I would prefer to avoid using "GIs"--it looks awkward).

KfitzR · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:42 am

1) "Tribe" must be the verb.And we're worrying about 'Mentor' as a verb?

Rio · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:47 am

I can just imagine the pep talk the U.S. commanders are giving the G.I.'s about now:"If at first you don't succeed, tribe, tribe again!"

majorbabs · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:35 pm

I checked on the NYT web page to see if I'd gotten the apostophe in G.I.s wrong (I hadn't) and note that the headline for that story ON THE WEB reads: Iraqui Tribes, Asked to Help G.I.'s, Say They Can't.A better headline, but not the one I saw in print.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:42 pm

For a paper as seemingly sophisticated as the Times, the paper looks goofy putting apostrophes in plurals (like G.I.'s and CD's) and in dates (the 1970's).[ November 13, 2003: Message edited by: jjmoney62 ]

Rio · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:28 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jjmoney62:
For a paper as seemingly sophisticated as the Times, the paper looks goofy putting apostrophes in plurals (like G.I.'s and CD's) and in dates (the 1970's).<hr></blockquote>Well, the apostrophe belongs in G.I.'s, doesn't it? The "s" is following a single letter -- the "I." We don't write "GIs," and readers would read "G.I.s" as jee-eye-ess.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:01 am

AP style is GIs

bwalsh · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:17 am

The Times uses those nonstandard apostrophes because it still uses all-caps headlines. Without the apostrophes, something like "PCBS" would look like an unfamiliar abbreviation rather than the plural of a relatively familiar one. It extends the practice to things like "1970's" as a matter of consistency, I suppose.

SusanV · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:29 am

And we all know what Emerson said about *that*. <grin>

pjaymac · **Joined:** Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:01 am **Posts:** 9

Hobgoblins! They're everywhere!

Rio · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:16 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jjmoney62:
AP style is GIs<hr></blockquote>So it is.Regardless, if you're using an acronym with periods between the letters, the apostrophe before the "s" is still called for, IMO.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:22 pm

Style is style, but I still don't see how G.I.s, GIs or PCBs is hard to read. And adding an apostrophe, as if you're a realtor or some kid at McDonald's updating the message board, seems to be the worst option, but I'm sure someone of great stature came up with the rule decades ago, and we mustn't tinker with tradition.

KfitzR · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:31 pm

Iraqui Tribes?
Whence the 'u' ? (At the risk of apostrophes) Is that NYT style too?

Bolder1 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:43 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by majorbabs:
One of the least-clear headlines I've read recently in today's NYT: "Iraqi Tribes G.I.'s Ask for Help Say They Can't"What about, Iraqi Tribes Refuse to Help G.I.'s? Better choices?<hr></blockquote>Actually, it was noticed here, and was rewritten for the 2nd editions: "Iraqi Tribes, Asked to Help G.I.'s, Say They Can't"Now THAT'S much better! Sometimes our unwritten headline rules get followed out the window, as Al Siegal is fond of saying.

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