Our Changing Language

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:38 pm

You and 900 other employees of a textile factory arrive at work to learn that the company is going out of business, you no longer have a job effective immediately and there is no plan to recall you. You are:a. "laid off"
b. "fired"
c. "furloughed"
d. "fux0r3d"[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: blanp ]

gullyj · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:18 am

"B" works in my world. I suppose "D" is used by some alternative civilization but for the life of me I cannot grasp its origin.

nstockdale · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:56 am

This is my gut reaction, not how I would edit a story or what the dictionary says, but...To me, this is being laid off.
If you're fired, it's due to some fault of your own.
If you might be called back, it's a furlough.And I'm 25, if that makes a difference.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:21 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by blanp:
You and 900 other employees of a textile factory arrive at work to learn that the company is going out of business, you no longer have a job effective immediately and there is no plan to recall you. You are:a. "laid off"
b. "fired"
c. "furloughed"
d. "fux0r3d"[ July 31, 2003: Message edited by: blanp ]<hr></blockquote>The first three didn't work, so with trepidation I went to the Web to confirm what I feared the fourth meant (the first three letters of the "word" were a giveaway.)I'll buy the first round in Great Falls if you can get it into a headline this week, blanp.

catwoman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:21 pm

on that topic, there are some sailing ships here in chicago this week, and the word "shanghaied" keeps coming up in conversation. it's nagging at me that this is considered a pejorative term but i can't find anything to support this vague memory & nobody else within earshot has heard of that either.am i hearing voices?

Pam · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:40 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>the word "shanghaied" keeps coming up in conversation. it's nagging at me that this is considered a pejorative term <hr></blockquote>To be shanghaied means to be taken against one's will, by force and/or by intoxication. Is that what you mean by pejorative?It may also be considered an anti-Chinese phrase, since it's an offshoot of "Shangai" and the practice originally occurred on ships bound for China.

catwoman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:27 pm

I think I'm just hallucinating.

gullyj · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:54 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Nicole Stockdale:
To me, this is being laid off.
If you're fired, it's due to some fault of your own.
If you might be called back, it's a furlough.And I'm 25, if that makes a difference.<hr></blockquote>Not quite. A layoff means you have the possibility of being called back to work.
A firing is a job dismissal, either individually or en masse, and possibly through no fault of your own.
A furlough is more like a leave of absence.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 1:57 pm

I've ranted about this on the ACES site if not here. Apologies to those who see this as a rerun:The problem is that corporate PR departments decided that getting rid of workers en masse sounded better if they called them "layoffs," which used to mean a temporary forced leave, even when the dismissal was permanent.After years of large and frequent job cuts called "layoffs," some corporations have taken to calling these "furloughs."Hence the confusion for some of us oldsters.I suppose the next step will be to call getting rid of workers because of the economy a "vacation."

bwalsh · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:14 pm

Is there anyone here who, in applying for new jobs after a "downsizing," will write "GOT FIRED" in the "reason for living last job" blank?

tim · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:22 pm

I thought "fired" means you are dismissed from the job, regardless of whether you were at fault or not. A "layoff" means you've lost the job, but may be called back at some point. And "furlough" means you've lost the job, but only for a temporary length of time. I believe there's a shade of difference between furlough and leave of absence, with furlough being your employer's idea, and leave of absence being your idea.I could be wrong about any or all of that, but one thing is certain: "Terminated" is a bit of corporate-speak that has wormed its way into everyday usage. Let's excise that.My answer to the original query is "b" and "d."

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:40 pm

I always interpreted "terminated" as an all-encompassing word for cessation of employment, whether it be by quitting of your own accord, being fired, being laid off, being furloughed, being fux0red or dying.

Matthew Grieco · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:42 pm

Sorry, looking back at Phil's initial post I see that I misspelled "fux0r3d." I apologize for being so not 1337.

ADKbrown · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:55 pm

Will someone please explain fux0red?Pending an explanation, "fired" strikes me as the only appropriate term. If you are laid off or furloughed, you might return. If the business goes kaput, you can't return. "Fired" does not necessarily imply misconduct, incompetence or whatever on the part of the worker. A kinder word might be "dismissed."

Dyslexic · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:28 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ADKbrown:
Will someone please explain fux0red?<hr></blockquote><a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fux0r">Explanation.</a>[ August 01, 2003: Message edited by: Dyslexic ]

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:52 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bill Walsh:
Is there anyone here who, in applying for new jobs after a "downsizing," will write "GOT FIRED" in the "reason for living last job" blank?<hr></blockquote>If you get tossed out for the right reason, and have space to offer an enticing explanation on the application, it can help you get the next job.Not that it's the easy way.[ August 02, 2003: Message edited by: Wayne Countryman ]

gullyj · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2003 9:46 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Wayne Countryman:
The problem is that corporate PR departments decided that getting rid of workers en masse sounded better if they called them "layoffs," which used to mean a temporary forced leave, even when the dismissal was permanent.<hr></blockquote>Actually, the problem isn't with the PR departments but with the journalists who parroted them.
It seems to me these attempts to gloss over what was really happening to workers who lost their jobs started when the so-called "era of prosperity" ended in the early 1980s and corporations -- especially the auto industry -- popularized the use of the word "downsizing"

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2003 5:03 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by canuck:
Actually, the problem isn't with the PR departments but with the journalists who parroted them.<hr></blockquote>Yes. True of reporters and their editors. Another battle often lost by copy editors.

nstockdale · **Posted:** Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:01 am

I guess the point I was trying to make with my post is that, even though I know the "correct" definitions to those words, there's a whole generation of readers out there who would define them differently. How do you not alienate them, too?

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:23 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Nicole Stockdale:
I guess the point I was trying to make with my post is that, even though I know the "correct" definitions to those words, there's a whole generation of readers out there who would define them differently. How do you not alienate them, too?<hr></blockquote>Interesting question. Wish I had an interesting or intelligent answer."Fired" vs. "laid off" has been debated on other dicussion boards and, in the past year, in my newsroom. Age seems to factor into how they're commonly used.In a publication with a wide audience, we need to use words that will be clear to all -- whether by obeying a good dictionary or providing context and then trusting that readers will figure out what we mean. Always trusting dictionaries or the judgment of age-beholden editors will doom clarity, if not reader alienation.The language changes. Changes in connotations gain momentum. Perhaps the predominant connotation of "laid off" will soon be a permanent loss of a job absent wrongdoing by the employee. Perhaps it already is. I'm decades from retiring, so I need to watch for this. In the meantime, I'm guessing from context what it means whenever I read it -- that context being not only the story but the publication.In the meantime, we need words that mean the same thing to all. Lack of clarity will alienate readers faster than not using trendy words for the young or musty ones for the old.It's fairly easy to get around this question while writing or editing a story but, oh, those headlines.Six paragraphs, yet no solution here. Sorry.

pzicari · **Posted:** Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:37 pm

What's that term the British use -- Redundant?I can't find proof readily, but "Fired" is probably an Americanism derived from "discharged," whose meanings do cover being released from a job.[ August 08, 2003: Message edited by: Pete Zicari ]

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