First interview wisdom?

Newsyneighbor · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 28

I'm going to a journalism job fair - my first exposure outside of an internship interview. So, undoubtedly, a few questions:

1) I'm wondering whether I should take out my nose ring. I'm figuring the answer is yes, but I'm young and am partial to it but willing to remove it, nevertheless.

2) How should I present my experience? I've got a well-organized, well-written resume and have a portfolio of headline clips, plus recommendation letters. Should I bring all of that, or should I consider bringing anything else? Is it necessary to bring headline clips?

Thanks.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:41 pm

I wear four earrings in each ear and friends are always surprised that I wear all of them for job interviews (my feeling being that I don't want to work anywhere where I can't wear as many damn earrings as I please anyway). However, I do tend to wear my hair long enough that the earrings probably aren't always all that noticeable, either. But a nose ring... I'd wait till I was hired to try that one out.

copynomad · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:07 am **Posts:** 623

Wear whatever you like as long as you're willing to miss out on a job if someone doesn't like piercings. You won't know whether you've missed chances because of your piercings, of course.

Bring all the stuff you mentioned, and bring plenty of copies.

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:41 pm

I wouldn't care if someone wore a nose ring to an interview, but plenty of people would (especially if you are male).

Take it out. Look at it this way: If you wear it and don't get the job, you will always wonder if it was the nose ring that kept you from getting hired.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:40 pm

If the nose ring is more important than the job, wear the ring.

Why take a job at which you won't be happy? What rules might a company have that chafed worse than hassles over a nose ring?

It's possible that a company would frown on a nose ring at an interview but allow employees to wear them. But it might not.

It's a good idea to have inside knowledge about a potential employer's culture before an interview. Some newsrooms have strict dress codes. But even if one doesn't, count on some supervisors to frown on a nose ring.

Unless you're desperate, a job interview should work both ways.
You can use the nose ring as a test. I agree, though, that if you wear the ring and don't get the job, you might never know whether the ring was the reason.

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:56 pm

Well said, Wayne.

Newsyneighbor · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 28

I'll probably take it out. I'm a woman; it's a small stud one of my co-workers didn't notice until I asked him whether I should take it out.

I've known I would have to take it out once I graduate. Time to face the "real world."

McGarry · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:14 am

I made it most of the way through the hiring process at a smalltown newspaper, but had to meet the owner before I got the job. The editor advised me to shave my beard first, because the owner didn't like 'em. I took myself out of the running.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:34 am

The publisher of my first paper nearly fired not only me but the executive editor after I went less than two weeks without shaving. I happened to have shaved off a beard before taking the job. Didn't know that beards were banned. I shaved to save the EE's job, but demanded a sit-down with the publisher afterward.

Will spare y'all the full story--not that anyone would believe it.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:40 am

Newsyneighbor wrote:

I'll probably take it out. I'm a woman; it's a small stud one of my co-workers didn't notice until I asked him whether I should take it out.

Don't throw away the stud. You might be able to wear it after being hired if it's not that noticeable. That you're a woman might help. If you're a copy editor and not a reporter or photographer, that might help.

But I'd expect some papers to hold it against you during the hiring process. (Not saying they should.)

cobra_kai · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:06 am

I wouldn't leave anything to chance. If there is uncertainty about wearing it, don't wear it and err on the side of caution.

As far as clips (which seems to have been forgotten), I would bring as many as I could with at least five to 10 copies of each. It's tangible proof of what you're capable of, and it shows that, nose ring or not, you can get the job done.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:14 am

Wayne Countryman wrote:

The publisher of my first paper nearly fired not only me but the executive editor after I went less than two weeks without shaving. I happened to have shaved off a beard before taking the job. Didn't know that beards were banned. I shaved to save the EE's job, but demanded a sit-down with the publisher afterward.

Will spare y'all the full story--not that anyone would believe it.

Now that you've piqued my curiosity, try me...

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:47 pm

[MR. LOCKSMITH: I won't be offended or even testy if you delete this post in lieu of shutting down the thread. I might even recommend it.]

During my first job interview after quitting that paper, an executive editor asked over lunch what I'd learned about the biz in my first two years in it. Big mistake: He never made it through his salad, didn't touch his entree. Said he'd never heard such tales--and was sorry that any 25-year-old had lived them.

In my dotage I'll recount all this in my autobiography, "City Desk, Countryman." The title comes from the awkward way another newsroom required that I answer my phone.

But since you asked, here's a taste of the more decent things the publisher told me:
1. Guys with beards can't be trusted.
2. The strangest people on Earth are Pennsylvanians. (We weren't talking about Pennsylvania, let alone in it.)
3. Any guy with a beard obviously has doubts about his manhood.
4. Guys who think any women like beards are fools, because to a hippopotamus, even another hippo might look good.
5. He'd been all the way to Chicago and Atlanta in his lifetime without ever seeing anyone in a position of authority with a beard.

Then it got personal.

This didn't stand out as unusual at that paper, though. This was nothing.

What was the subject here before my most recent hijacking? Oh, yeah:
Um, good luck if you wear the nose ring, even though we've reached the 21st century.
Should you bring examples of your work? Yes--couldn't hurt, if they're good ones, and they might be demanded.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:49 pm

Well, in all fairness, the strangest people on Earth *are* Pennsylvanians. And I can't really argue with the women not liking beards part, either. I dated a guy in college who had a really long beard that he thankfully shaved off (after a hefty bribe from his mother) not too long after we hooked up, and I never did figure out what I ever saw in him before the beard came off (though his face was a pleasant surprise when I finally saw it). But how the presence or absence of a beard could possibly affect one's work in a newsroom, I can't imagine, unless one was operating the presses and it was long enough to potentially get caught in them...

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:25 pm

Nose rings vary. Most of the ones I see regularly are understated. I'd wear it if it isn't garish.

Newsyneighbor · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 28

Yeah. It's very small - and classy, a real diamond stud!

I'll take it out because I don't want to miss out on any future opportunities.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

copynomad · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:07 am **Posts:** 623

For what it's worth: I worked with someone with several facial piercings. (I can't remember where exactly, but they made me wince, and I've actually considered getting a nose stud.) He always dressed professionally -- long-sleeve shirts, ties and slacks. That kinda balanced out his professional appearance. He wore the piercings throughout his interviews at our midsize metro daily in a liberal city. He was a good editor; that's what counted.

I hire, and piercings don't phase me. I work in a liberal city, tho. You might take that into account when you interview. Good luck.

cobra_kai · **Posted:** Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:37 am

lfelaco wrote:

Well, in all fairness, the strangest people on Earth *are* Pennsylvanians.

HEEEYYYY! Native Philadelphian here [record scratches]...Oh, never mind. We are a bunch of whackjobs...

SuchASlot · **Joined:** Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:01 am **Posts:** 1189

Newsyneighbor wrote:

I've known I would have to take it out once I graduate. Time to face the "real world."

I had four piercings in one ear, three in the other, and a nose ring before I set out interviewing for my first "real" job (mid-'90s). I regret that I removed most of them before the job search --- not because I miss the piercings, but because I spent a few years early in my career working in settings where I wasn't comfortable being myself or expressing even work-related opinions.

My appearance now is admittedly pretty average, but there is little to nothing that I would hide --- piercings, tattoos, habits, beliefs, relations --- from a potential employer today. If an employer is going to make a hiring decision based on things as personal as those, I'm not interested in that job.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:54 pm

Yeah, but on the flip side, copynomad admits a co-worker's facial piercings induced winces. As an employer, should you hire someone who's going to make the rest of your staff wince, regardless of how you personally feel about body piercing? I don't think so. You do need to have a certain amount of interpersonal harmony to run an efficient workplace, after all.

Newsyneighbor · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 28

Quote:

Yeah, but on the flip side, copynomad admits a co-worker's facial piercings induced winces. As an employer, should you hire someone who's going to make the rest of your staff wince, regardless of how you personally feel about body piercing? I don't think so. You do need to have a certain amount of interpersonal harmony to run an efficient workplace, after all.

That's no excuse to discriminate. That is the type of ideology that breeds discrimination, stereotypes and prejudice.

If employers want to miss out on good hires simply because of a few more ear piercings than average or a small nose ring, then fine. I'd rather experience life than be afraid of someone's lifestyle or beliefs.

It goes without saying that I'll still take it out. Though I'll put it back in, I'm sure.

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:54 pm

If we denied employment to everyone whose fashion choices make me wince, the newsroom would be nearly empty.

wordygurdy · **Posted:** Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:27 pm

That made me laugh out loud, No. 1.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:47 am

There's a difference between discriminating against someone for a characteristic that they can't change, such as skin color or ethnic background, and something they can change like a nose ring. If I hired, say, an Asian person and it turned out someone else on staff had a problem with Asians, too bad for them. But there's no reason anyone has to wear a nose ring at work. I'd like to be able to bring my dogs to work with me, but I'm not allowed to. Is that "discriminating" against me as a pet owner?

Newsyneighbor · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 28

lfelaco wrote:

There's a difference between discriminating against someone for a characteristic that they can't change, such as skin color or ethnic background, and something they can change like a nose ring. If I hired, say, an Asian person and it turned out someone else on staff had a problem with Asians, too bad for them. But there's no reason anyone has to wear a nose ring at work. I'd like to be able to bring my dogs to work with me, but I'm not allowed to. Is that "discriminating" against me as a pet owner?

Wow.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:17 pm

Just to clarify, I meant "too bad" for the person w/the prejudice, not the Asian person. I would never tolerate anyone's prejudices in the workplace. But most workplaces do have dress codes, and to me nose rings are a dress-code issue, not a discrimination issue (unless nose rings have some sort of religious significance I'm unaware of).

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:15 pm

This is veering off-topic, but we've done "dress codes" here before. To summarize: "Dress codes" for copy editors are ridiculous.

copynomad · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:07 am **Posts:** 623

I dunno that dress codes are ridiculous. We had another copy editor who wore clothes that were so revealing, someone told her to cover up. We're talking stuff that should be worn to the beach.

I dunno if it's discrimination to judge people by what they wear. We judge people by many things, their conduct, for instance. If someone shows the bad judgment to wear a halter top that shows front and back end revealingly and someone doesn't hire her, for instance, would you consider that discrimination?

lfelaco · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:33 pm

You would think no one would need to be told what is and isn't appropriate work attire, but then someone will show up at work, say, in flip-flops, and I have to wonder... And no, I'm not the suit type by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the necessity of buying interview clothes is generally what keeps me in the same job for long periods of time...

copynomad · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:07 am **Posts:** 623

Ha! We have people wear flip-flops to work. I don't care if they're wearing flip-flops or piercings (even if they make me wince). Apparently, some people need to be told not to wear halter tops to work. Then dress codes come into play because rules need to be clearly stated or you get people complaining that they were singled out.

lfelaco · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:56 pm

I don't care about flip-flops, either, I just wouldn't wear 'em to work myself, mostly because of the danger of them flying off my feet either when I'm jumping into the Metro car as the doors are closing or when my husband's giving me a ride to work on his motorcycle. (He insists that if I must wear sandals on the bike, they have to at least have a strap in back.) Though I was kind of embarrassed to discover in a staff meeting one morning that I had on one black shoe and one blue shoe, having found a pair I liked so much I'd bought it in two different colors...

cobra_kai · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:16 pm

I don't mean to continue this tangent, but I hate dress codes so much that it was one of the main reasons I left my old job.

Case in point.

I'm normally one to dress well, as it should be in a professional newsroom. But if I'm specifically told to do so, in the form of a list with seemingly arbitrary choices (such as facial piercings), you've lost me.

Newsyneighbor · **Joined:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 28

I agree that dress codes should be clearly stated and also that it is sort of silly to require copy editors to conform to reporters' dress codes. No one sees me, unlike a reporter, who is in the public eye and should represent the newspaper. If I were a reporter, I'd take out my nose ring indefinitely, though it is a shame I should have to do that, with such a sparkling subtlety I think looks nice.

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:13 pm

We're getting even further off-topic, but I will mention that I was perhaps the nation's worst-dressed reporter back in the day, to no apparent detriment.

copynomad · **Joined:** Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:07 am **Posts:** 623

I hear ya, cobra_kai. But I wouldn't skip a job over something like that, especially because it's not something I'd run afoul of. (Bigger picture, I resent having to pee in a cup to get hired. But that would rule out many jobs I'd want.)

We all have different priorities. For instance, I was less picky when I started my career because I wanted to establish myself. So if a nose ring would've cost me a job, I woulda ditched the nose ring. But clothing and piercings can be very personal, and sometimes political, so it comes down to the person and the job.

As far as making rules about clothing, I can see the reasoning for it. But if I were forced to make a rule, which I can't imagine, it would basically say that we don't want to see your underwear or parts that you shake around on a music video.

Nessie3 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:17 am

Phillip Blanchard wrote:

We're getting even further off-topic, but I will mention that I was perhaps the nation's worst-dressed reporter back in the day, to no apparent detriment.

If you'd dressed better, how do you know you wouldn't be No. 1 on the Gruntled Multimillionaire Copy Editors site?

Editer · **Posted:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:29 am

Let me see if I can distill the points made per the original question, plus a couple cents' worth of my own (your appraisal may vary).

An interview isn't a test day at work where you can follow the office dress codes. There are expectations specific to the interview; they vary among workplaces. Some interviewers frown upon facial jewelry, either on their own or on behalf of the prospective employer. Others do not. Same goes for suits vs. sport jacket and slacks, tie or no tie, heels vs. flats, etc.

One thing the interviewer looks for is whether you're willing to make an effort to fit in. Many employers will settle for a little less productivity in exchange for working well with others. (Not realizing that fact has limited my career options at more than one workplace in the past.)

The interview-specific rules may seem arbitrary, but you flout them at your peril. If you can find out what's likely to be OK and what's not, great. Otherwise, err on the conservative side.

Nessie3 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:41 am

In a world governed by Murphy's Law, the interviewer would have a nose ring of her own and would be put off more by the empty hole than she would have by an unpierced candidate.

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