Reporters who become copy editors

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:14 pm

Specifically, is it better to have been a reporter before becoming a copy editor, or can a career copy editor have just as much perspective and garner just as much newsroom respect as one who has "worked their way up"?As an example, I'll offer myself and one of my co-workers. I'm in my fourth year as a copy editor, after having worked 11 years as a reporter. I've worked at several newspapers in the region and as such developed a word-of-mouth reputation as a solid journeyman scribe -- no Pulitzer Prizes in my future, but somebody who carried the freight and delivered the goods in low-maitenance fashion. In fact, even though I'd hired on at my current paper for a desk position, they initially tried to land me as a reporter. So when I edit copy, reporters tend to come to me with their questions about how to organize facts or how to turn a certain phrase, etc. This is a sore point with my copy-desk counterpart, who has in her fifth year as a copy editor but has never been a reporter. She feels "disrespected" because the writers go through her and come to me. It's hard for me to explain to her that there's an indelible bond of sorts between those who have "been in the trenches" and have a shared experiences, sort of like Vietnam War veterans or something -- people who haven't fought in the war can't speak credibly to the experience, even if they know the history and strategy and hold a certain rank of authority. But she takes this as people assuming that I'm superior to her, and as my own assumptuon that my skills are superior to hers, when I can't really say that's the case. She's really pretty good, and she does outrank me in the newsroom hierarchy largely by virtue of the fact that she's been here a year longer than I ... but she just lacks that "Band of Brothers" quality that would get her the respect she thinks she deserves.What do you think? Is it really better to be a copy editor who's been a reporter? Does that make for an inherently better copy editor? Or is it all a matter of perecption. And if so, is it a VALID perception? What's your own experience in this regard ... have you ever had to confront this issue?

snoopyr13 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 11:06 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jim Thomsen:
What do you think? Is it really better to be a copy editor who's been a reporter? Does that make for an inherently better copy editor? Or is it all a matter of perecption. And if so, is it a VALID perception? What's your own experience in this regard ... have you ever had to confront this issue?<hr></blockquote>Actually, I have seen copy editors become great reporters. They know what needs to be included in stories to make them informative, and copy sent over has fewer errors on average. I would not want any reporters from my paper working on the copy desk -- that would be scary.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:05 pm

That young copy editor, she'll never get it, man. She's never been to hell and back, never cowered with a comrade in a trench. She's never had a buddy get blown to bits in Nam. Never had to look in the eyes of an 18-year-old boy from Great Bend, Kansas, both of you knowing he wasn't going to make it in time for the medic to work his magic. She's never laced up those boots. She's never had to phone in a story on deadline when the Library Board unexpectedly went into executive session 20 minutes before first-edition deadline without resolving the discrepancy in the Maintenance Fund portion of the fiscal year budget. She just doesn't know, man. And how could she ever know? It's not something you read in a book at J school. You gotta live it, sweetheart. And deep down, she knows it. How could she not think -- dammit, KNOW -- that they're just plain better than she is. How could she even look any of them in the eye? How could she ever see into the hearts of the Band of Brothers?

Finn DeSiecle · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:52 am

The majority of the reporters I work with are young and/or new to our area, so they don't have a clue as to how many of the copy editors had been reporters. (Most of us. We're a largely veteran bunch who date back to the days when moving to the desk could even be considered a move "up.") The attitude of the young ones toward the desk seems to depend on the writer involved rather than who the editor is.We still have several veteran reporters -- but almost all have become unjustifiably convinced that their experience has made them experts in writing, so they'll treat an editor who wants to change/cut their copy as an amateur interloper regardless of the editor's background. ("The lede is supposed to be down there. I did it that way deliberately to make it more interesting." Save me.)As for whether reporting experience is essential for a copy editor, I'd say no, but I do believe it strengthens the editor somewhat. At the very least it helps to know firsthand how the news-gathering process that brings you the stories works. (At least I think it helped me -- although my time as a reporter was rather brief. When my first paper's desk got desperately short-handed, it was only a matter of time before someone came over to me and said, "Say, you write pretty clean copy..." Better that than yank a veteran reporter off a key beat, I suppose.)

KfitzR · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:12 am

Ive done both, back and forth on three papers and I think the roles enhance each other. Filling in on the desk for a month or so sharpened my writing, and the reporting experience gave me a context for editing.

newsguy28 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:32 am

Many people seem to think that it's good to have both reporting and copy editing experience. And it seems that many older copy editors began their careers as reporters before moving to the desk. But what if you took a copy-editing job right out of college and decide several years later that you'd like to do some reporting? Can it be done? I have been contemplating taking a break from copy editing to get some of the reporting experience that I probably should have gotten right after college. But I'm having no luck persuading hiring editors to take me seriously as a candidate for a reporting job. Is it possible to land a reporting job if you have lots of copy-desk experience but few recent writing clips?

zfriloux · **Posted:** Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:59 am

I've known several people who became reporters after a few years as copy editors. If you're having a hard time finding a reporting job, though, why not "volunteer" to be a reporter a couple of days a week where you work now? If a reporter is receptive to the idea, you might even be able to institute some sort of part-time trade. I've worked places where supervising editors were open to these kind of arrangements because they realized the more people could do multiple jobs, the better.

Guest · **Posted:** Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:01 pm

That's what I do, on a story-by-story basis. I don't ever want to lose touch with my reporting roots, so every now and then I'll find a good newsfeature story in my community that the reporters at my paper haven't come across, and will develop it on my own and submit it to the city desk. They LOVE the "pleasant surprise" ... it's like found money to them. I love doing the work once in a while -- what I got burned out on was grinding, soul-gumming beat-maintenance reportage -- and they love knowing there's another in-house writing resource that can tap once in a while. It's a great generator of newsroom goodwill, and it's even a mildly useful bargaining chip when you're seeking a raise come annual-performance-review time.

Sanvean · **Posted:** Thu Nov 07, 2002 4:46 pm

I've been a copy editor since graduating from college four years ago, and I feel I took the right path for me, as I strongly dislike reporting. However, I know that this will limit my career, as I doubt I'll ever get an editor's job without reporting experience..

Emily Salmon · **Joined:** Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:01 am **Posts:** 86

Then can you offer some advice? I am an unemployed reporter trying to become a copy editor. I'm taking a class in Illustrator-Photoshop-Quark. I can't get an internship, and I no longer qualify for Dow Jones because I've worked in the real world. I thought there was a greater market for copy editors than for reporters.

jjmoney62 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:39 am

Emily, there's a good market for *experienced* copy editors. I would imagine it's pretty tough for an out-of-work reporter to get the attention of a copy desk chief. I would suggest getting another reporting gig and trying to cross over to the desk from the inside. Seems like it would be much easier that way. And don't waste too much money on computer classes. Like most of journalism, you can learn most of that stuff quickly on the job. (Can we close this topic, too, now?)

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Sat Nov 16, 2002 1:58 pm

I was a reporter before becoming a copy editor. I made the move a long time ago because:a. I had a young family and liked the feeling that the job was done at the end of the night, rather than taking home the pressure of what to do tomorrow.b. See above.Most of the editors on our desk are veterans who were reporters at one time. We've had mixed success with career copy editors. One, who came here as part of a fellowship program, was exceptionally talented and was snapped up by Houston.Unfortunately, some of the young reporters (and that's all we are hiring) seem to think the copy desk is some sort of "special class" within the newspaper, a place where people too stupid to do anything else are given some kind of a workfare job. Unfortunately, management seems to do little to change this perception.They are absolutely shocked when they find out that most of us were reporters. Imagine that.

Bolder1 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 19, 2002 2:32 pm

<Specifically, is it better to have been a reporter before becoming a copy editor, or can a career copy editor have just as much perspective and garner just as much newsroom respect as one who has "worked their way up"?>Yes, and no. I was a copy editor for six years at three papers (small, medium and large) before becoming a reporter (large paper). I know it's a cliche, but you don't know what it's like to report and write on deadline unless you've been there. I didn't believe this was true when I started as a copy editor, but I was wrong. Coyp editing is a nice, comfy, secure job, but you're not putting your neck on the line every day.As for respect, reporters at my paper have little regard for copy editors in general, and even less so for those just out of college. It's not a hostile relationship; more like indifference. When we criticize copy editors who have been reporters, it's always prefaced with "...that's odd, because John Doe used to be a reporter and should know better..." Bottom line, IMO, is that you've gotta have been a reporter sometime to earn respect. The ultimate put-down in a newsroom is: "I don't think he/she has ever been a reporter."

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:45 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bolder1:
<Copyediting is a nice, comfy, secure job, but you're not putting your neck on the line every day."<hr></blockquote>Bolder1, I could not agree more with you. When I am sitting in slot, six minutes past deadline, slotting a sensitive, potentially libelous story written by an incompetent reporter, rammed through by a city editor with no other thought than whose ass he can get his nose up next and then "read" on the rim by someone who ceased to give a shit 20 years ago, I don't feel one iota as if my neck is on the line.Reporting, copy editing. Done well, both are tough, tough jobs. But you knew that.

Phillip Blanchard · **Posted:** Tue Nov 19, 2002 4:29 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bolder1:
Bottom line, IMO, is that you've gotta have been a reporter sometime to earn respect. The ultimate put-down in a newsroom is: "I don't think he/she has ever been a reporter."<hr></blockquote>Anyone who withholds "respect" from from an editor on the basis of his reporting experience is making a grave error. My reporting jobs were very important to my development as an editor, but I know a great many outstanding editors who have never been reporters. Anyhow, although having the "respect" of reporters is nice, it is not essential. Editors need the respect and support of desk chiefs and their superiors.

Bolder1 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 24, 2002 5:50 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
Bolder1, I could not agree more with you. When I am sitting in slot, six minutes past deadline, slotting a sensitive, potentially libelous story written by an incompetent reporter, rammed through by a city editor with no other thought than whose ass he can get his nose up next and then "read" on the rim by someone who ceased to give a shit 20 years ago, I don't feel one iota as if my neck is on the line.Reporting, copy editing. Done well, both are tough, tough jobs. But you knew that.<hr></blockquote>

Bolder1 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:00 pm

Sorry, technical difficulties...didn't mean to post twice.I don't argue that slotting is a high-pressure job, just as being a backfielder or night city editor can be. However, I make an important distinction between slotting and rim editing. I was the news editor of a smallish paper and I can tell you I never felt so wrung out after work...it was like a three-mile sprint every night. Having slotted more than enough times in my life, I can say the position is probably the least appreciated in the newsroom. As for the notion of respect in a newsroom, the thread was started with the question of whether copy editors who haven't been reporters are as respected as those who have. I say no. <<Anyhow, although having the "respect" of reporters is nice, it is not essential. Editors need the respect and support of desk chiefs and their superiors.>> No, not essential. But it sure beats the alternative...

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:16 pm

Good points, Bolder.

Guest · **Posted:** Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:49 pm

From a journalismjobs.com ad for the Rapid City (South Dakota) Journal:"Weâ€™ve promoted one of our copy editors, and weâ€™re looking to fill her spot with an experienced editor who loves newspapers and words. If youâ€™re a stickler for proper grammar, precise diction and effective syntax, and can demonstrate solid news judgment and strong headline-writing skills, this could be the job for you. Reporting background will give you an edge."

Bumfketeer · **Posted:** Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:17 am

The most valuable skill a copy editor can possess: "Precise diction."What the heck are the copy editors supposed to do? Call subscribers and read them the paper over the phone, sort of like FDR with the funnies?

KfitzR · **Posted:** Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:18 pm

Precise diction is actually correct. Diction refers to the choice of words and phrases in speech and writing. The manner of enunciation is a secondary meaning. My Grade 7 grammar teacher is proud.

Bolder1 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 01, 2002 9:09 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Bumfketeer:
The most valuable skill a copy editor can possess: "Precise diction."What the heck are the copy editors supposed to do? Call subscribers and read them the paper over the phone, sort of like FDR with the funnies?<hr></blockquote>
Actually, when I was a copy editor in Raleigh at the N&O, we had to read the page 2 news summary into a phone message. The theory was that time-challenged readers could call the news line and hear all the news they needed in three minutes! This was in the early 1990s...Honestly, I couldn't have made that up.

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